Wi-Fi & connectivity

[JKasten]

Just got a Roku Express and the recommended UGreen Ethernet Adapter and a Netgear GS308 Unmanaged Switch so that I could use the Express (and my laptop) with my Cable Modem.  Hooked everything up but the Express puts a Red X in the Wired Connection box when searching for the internet, and then puts up a page titled "Unable to find Ethernet".  Tried all the recommended fixes, but no change - although the Express DOES detect if I disconnect its ethernet cable. 

All Activity LEDs on the Modem, Switch, and Ethernet Adapter show plenty of activity on all devices.  Even tried a second UGreen Ethernet Adapter (same results).  Ditto when connecting the Ethernet Adapter directly to the Cable Modem (without the Switch).

What am I missing?  Is a wired Router needed instead of a Switch?  Formerly, a laptop was connected directly to the Cable Modem; it still works when connected directly and when connected through the Switch - but the Express can't find the Ethernet either way.  Is the Cable Modem somehow "dedicated" to the laptop, and thus will not respond to the Ethernet Adapters?  (If so, can that be resolved such that all devices can access the Internet?)  Any other good suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[AvsGunnar]

@JKasten 

Likely, your cable modem is your router (internal/integrated DHCP server).  On most modems, though,(with a single ethernet port), you will need to add a router before a switch. (of course, if you add a router, you may no longer need the switch unless the number of wired devices outnumber the LAN ports of the router).

Additionally, many ISP modems only allow one wired device to access the internet at a time (due to a single public/wan IP address allocation) when using a switch directly connected to the modem. (multiple devices unable to share/compete for this single address in this setup).  The router allows multiple devices to share this single IP address.  The switch expands the number of wired devices when plugged into the router.

However, just to verify.  What is the model number of the cable modem, the ethernet adapter you are using, and the Roku Express (from Settings/System/About).

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First inclination is that the ethernet adapter may be part of the issue since it fails to work at both the switch and the modem location with the Express.  Generally, need to use a USB 2.0 10/100 fast ethernet adapter with the required chipsets AX8877X or SMSC95XX.  (there are a few users that have reportedly gotten some 10/100/1000 adapters to work, but hit and miss there.)

https://support.roku.com/article/360058027813

[JKasten]

Sorry for the delayed reply.  Here are some answers:

Equipment models:

Cable Modem:  Hiltron, Model appears to be EN2251  (This modem has a single ethernet port).

Ethernet Adapter:  UGreen Model number on device is illegible; box does not explicitly state model number but shows 30985 and a bar-coded X001C6AUST.  (This is the adapter that is linked from the Roku compatibility article).

Roku Express:  Model 3960R

Roku Express 4K+:  Model 3941R2

Regarding the cable modem, it does seem to latch onto the ID of the particular laptop that is connected to it, and usually has to be re-booted whenever changing from one laptop to another.  However, I did try connecting the Roku Express 4K+ directly to the Cable Modem and then re-booting the modem.  The Express still could not find the ethernet after that - but possibly the modem did not fully reset because it still recognized the laptop (when the laptop was re-connected directly to the Modem) without another re-boot.  (So, the ID of the laptop seemed to be retained by the Modem, despite the re-boot.  Possibly, this prevented recognition of the Express).

Regarding the switch, based on what a local "IT guy" said, I was hoping that I could get away with an unmanaged switch, and avoid trying to find an ethernet-only router.  Oh, well...  The ISP's support rep also seemed to think that a switch was adequate - but didn't sound all that confident.

Regarding the Ethernet Adapters and Rokus, I tried swapping between the two Adapters and the two Rokus when connected via the Switch, but tried only one Adapter and only the Express 4K+  when connecting directly to the Cable Modem.  Perhaps I should try the other Adapter and the Express connected directly to the Cable Modem - although all other "test cases" produced identical results.  By the way, the Adapters do not indicate which USB protocol they use but are 100 Mbps "fast internet".  No idea about their chipsets.

At this point, I'm hoping to find some conclusive identification of the problem before buying more components to "try" - so I hope this isn't going to end up being a matter of "try and see".

Thanks for the info and suggestions! 

[AvsGunnar]

@JKasten 

The Ugreen 30985 ethernet adapter does use the ASIX AX88772C chipset and is the one that is currently linked to from the Roku Support page.  https://oemdrivers.com/network-ugreen-30985

Although the product description on the Amazon page indicates it is not compatible with "any Roku devices", I think they mean to say not compatible (technically) with Roku Streaming Sticks.  The recommendation/review section indicates users successfully using it with Express 4k devices.

Since it is a compatible chipset and users indicate it does work with Roku devices, you should be good to go with this device.  👍

I have used the Smays ethernet adapter with OTG (for usb storage) with my Roku devices and they work fine (with OTG, allows videos to be played through the Roku Media Player).   With this setup, kind of an "improvised" Ultra setup by providing USB to the device.

https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Adapter-Replacement-Express-Streaming/dp/B09MVWZMMB/ref=sr_1_2?s=ele...

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The Hitron en2251 is probably your sticking point.   It is likely that you have only been issued one IP address.  Thus, you can only use an unmanaged switch (or managed switch for that matter) with two wired devices if your ISP issues you two IP addresses (determined by MAC address) when directly connected to a modem.

It may be that the modem is having an issue providing internet access to both the MAC address of the ethernet adapter and the MAC address of the Roku device when directly connected to modem. (basically, a conflict is occuring as only one MAC address at a time can access internet with a single issued IP address.).

However, forgot to ask and just re-read that this is a "new" Express.  Have you already setup/activated it?  If not, try setting it up using a hotspot or other network before trying the wired method.  May just need to get a LAN IP first (this will at least activate the device, but still don't think it will fix the issue you are having.).

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If you are adverse to wifi, then certainly placing a wired router (ethernet-only) after the modem, but before the switch will resolve the issues you are having.  If not adverse to having wifi present, then likely any cheap router with the standard 4 ethernet/LAN ports will also resolve your issue.

Your modem has a 2.5G (multigig) ethernet port so depending on your speed plan and your budget, you can decide what type of router to purchase for your needs.

I can confidently tell you that a router (wired or wifi) will resolve the issue you are having and how I would address it.  (you can also ask your ISP if they can upgrade your modem to include a combo modem/router if not adverse to wifi capability.)  I would just purchase my own router, but laying out the options for you here.

Feel free to update or post more info if still having issues or questions. 

[JKasten]

Update:

By using longer power-down times for the Cable Modem in preparation for trying each device and waiting for the Modem to start up fully before connecting the ethernet device, I was able to get both Roku's to find the ethernet (& Internet) - although it seemed to take two tries for each Roku to "find" the ethernet.  (Not sure what that was all about).  Anyway, I was able to get as far as doing the firmware updates for each Roku.  So, it appears the problem is that the Cable Modem can "recognize" only one connected ethernet device at a time - even with a Switch in place - so apparently some sort of Router is required with this Cable Modem.  The unfortunate consequence is that I cannot activate the directly-connected Roku devices because I cannot connect a laptop (to receive the activation code eMails) and the Roku device being activated at the same time.  So, apparently, I'll need to get the Router situation settled before proceeding with activation/testing.  Frustratingly, the only ISP-compatible routers have just four ethernet ports - and I'll eventually need to connect six devices at the same time.  Hmmm...  Seems to be a gotcha at every turn...

[JKasten]

For some reason, I was not notified of your second reply, so sorry for not seeing that before my first reply.

A few comments/questions relating to this reply:

Yeah, I noticed that thing about not working with Roku devices in the Amazon listing for the UGreen Ethernet Adapter - but figured that I'd give it a try seeing that it was on Roku's compatibility list.  So far, it does appear to be fine with the Express devices - to the limited extent that I can use them so far.

I'll look into that OTG once I get up to speed with the Roku basics.  Thanks for the heads-up.

Your assessment of the Cable Modem situation correlates with my observations.  (More specifics in my earlier reply).

Also see my earlier reply about the state of activation of my Roku's.  Presumably, they have any LAN IPs set up at this point - although possibly they both got the same one.  I guess it's worth trying one (or both) again on the Switch at this point - just to see if anything useful happens.  As you say, though, it may not really avoid the need for a Router.  (Darn!)

I prefer to avoid Wi-Fi for three reasons:  1) potential RF interference with other on-site RF receivers, 2) I prefer to minimize the RF that flies around inside the house (and my body), and 3) Security risks.   However, I'm not adverse to getting a router that has Wi-Fi capability that can be disabled (so that only the ethernet can be used) - if that would provide the more practical/economical solution.

My plan speed is 100 Mbps (actually tests around 115 Mbps).  I was getting satisfactory results for my laptop(s) using a previous (lower) rate, so I'm guessing that the needs of the Rokus will drive the speed requirements going forward.

At this point, it appears that the buy-my-own-Router route is the more practical way - once I figure out the appropriate Router(s).  There seems to be some difference of opinion on whether a Switch can be used successfully to cascade off the Router in order to provide the extra two ethernet ports that I'll need.  Seems like it would be right back to the issue of shared IP for the leg to the Switch, though.  I'm also curious whether a Wi-Fi Router can serve four ethernet ports simultaneously with two Wi-Fi "ports" - which might be a "sneaky" way to support all six devices (if I can overcome the Wi-Fi aversion).  I wonder whether the individual Wi-Fi channel transmitters "sleep" when they're not in use...  (Sorry... I am almost completely unfamiliar with Wi-Fi operations).

Thanks for the analysis and suggestions! 

[AvsGunnar]

@JKasten 

Ok, good deal, looks like you are making progress.  I will try to do this in some basic steps for you. (if you get lost/confused just post back and I will try to clarify further - no worries).

1. Regarding the Roku activation.  Just use your cellphone if you have one (not laptop) in order to proceed through the activation and setup using the phone's web browser. 

2. Regarding wifi.  Using a wifi router is going to give you the greatest number of options to access a home network and the internet for any connected device.  You will be able to connect your cellphone to your network over wifi, any printers, etc.  You will not be limited to just having to use wired/ethernet capable devices of connecting to your network.

Wifi routers will also be cheaper normally than a wired router.  You can also disable/turn off the wifi 2.4ghz and 5ghz radios and use the wifi router as a wired router. (ie. just use the ethernet ports that will come with the router).  

I would personally consider using an AX router (wifi6) since this is a newer protocol and does have some increased security benefits when using wifi (wireless) connected devices. (namely WPA3 authentication). Just note that Roku devices do not currently support the WPA3 security protocol, so your AX router will just have to be configured to also use the more traditional AC (wifi5) WPA2 security protocol.  Most AX routers are shipped in this default configuration.  Your Roku devices will work with an AX router, just mentioning this as an FYI.

However, since you are wanting to use your Roku in a wired configuration, you will just be plugging it into one of the LAN ports anyways.  The WPA2 and WPA3 settings only apply to wireless/wifi connected devices, and does not affect or have anything to do with wired/ethernet connected devices.

3. A wired router will usually cost a bit more but here is a nice starter TP-Link (TL-R605) wired router you can consider for about $60.   Here is TP-Link webpage for more detailed info. https://www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/omada-sdn-router/tl-r605/.

Unfortunately, with a wired network you will need to either add a "wireless access point" or use your laptop as a wireless access point (ad-hoc hotspot) if you ever need to connect a wireless-only device to your network for some reason.

There are a few different methods to add wireless connectivity to a wired network, but for most users, just using a wifi router in their network will provide the easiest method (and less hardware and technical knowledge).

4. The purpose of the router (wired or wireless) is its ability to create a private network.  The router will handle all your connected devices (by giving each an independent, private LAN IP address via a DHCP server in the router) and then manage all the network traffic.  A router extends the ability for multiple devices to access the internet through a single/public WAN IP address. (some technical NAT operations then occur which directs internet traffic to the proper device and proper sharing).

The router is what allows many connected devices on a network to use/share your internet access (WAN IP address).

Another benefit of the router is that it will usually contain a firewall and other security features that are absent in a modem.

5. Regarding your switch.  The switch is just extra ethernet ports.  You will plug this switch into your new router (into one of the LAN ports) and now have extra LAN/ethernet ports available. If your router comes with 4 ethernet ports and your switch has 4 ethernet ports, your network now has 7 ethernet ports available for devices to connect to the internet. (one is being used up by the switch).

6. The modem is just the "gateway" to the internet.  The router will handle and protect the network traffic (all your devices) and the switch will just allow you to keep adding wired connections to the router.

In any network, if you did not need internet access, you would just use a router and a switch/hub so all the devices on the network could potentially discover and communicate with each other.  By adding a modem to the network, you are giving all these devices access to the internet.

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In summary your new setup will look like this... Modem --> Router --> Switch

You can then plug all your wired devices into both the router and the switch.  If you need even more ethernet ports, you can either add another switch (preferably to another of the router's LAN port again), or just purchase a switch that has more LAN ports. In practice, you can add a switch to each of the router's LAN ports if you wanted to.  The router will know what to do with each switch automatically.

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Hope some of this helps explains some basic networking for you.  Feel free to post back if needing more help.  

[makaiguy]

@JKasten-

Just one note of clarification to the excellent replies fom @AvsGunnar :

The "switch" he is talking about in his Point #5 adds additional Ethernet ports that are always connected to the system and each is always available for use. 

Don't confuse these with simple devices that act as selector switches.  They are used to connect multiple devices to a single Ethernet port and choose which of them will be connected at any one time.

[atc98092]

I sounds like the cable modem has a limited number of IP addresses it will assign, meaning there's a limit to the number of devices that can connect. I remember years ago many Comcast modems would only issue a single IP address, meaning only one device could connect. I thought they had stopped with that nonsense, but it does sound suspiciously like that's the issue.

Yes, the solution is to install your own router to handle your internet network IP addressing (DHCP). If possible, you can place your cable modem in "bridge" mode and it simply acts as the connector to the cable and all IP traffic is handled directly with your own router. This is the way I have my current Comcast connection configured. You gain the advantage of a) installing a router that may offer much better WiFi performance than the cable modem offered, and b) your cable company will not be able to control the settings in your router, meaning you have total control of all settings.

That was my issue that forced me to use my own modem. Comcast would not permit me to control most of the WiFi and firewall settings on the modem, and I wanted control of things like the channel number used and channel width. My network hums along perfectly with me having full control of everything and the Comcast modem simply being the bridge that connects the cable to my Ethernet. 

[JKasten]

AvsGunnar:

Thanks for your detailed descriptions!  They brought up some things that I'd like to clarify:

Re Roku Activation:  I have a Cellphone but do not have a Smartphone; My cellphone has Internet "capability", but it is a nightmare to use for any serious Internet activities.  I should be able to access my WebMail via this capability (although I have not yet attempted to do so - so who knows whether it will work well enough to accomplish the Roku activation.  Consequently, I may have to wait until I can get an appropriate Router, allowing the Laptop and Roku's to all access the Internet simultaneously, in order to complete the Roku activation).

Re Wi-Fi:  Undoubtedly Wi-Fi has advantages in convenience and scalability, and perhaps ease-of-use - but for my expected needs, these advantages don't seem to outweigh the disadvantages.  So, my initial attempts will be to implement a wired "network".  I say "network" because the only purpose of the ethernet would be to allow various individual devices to each connect (separately) to the Internet - as opposed to "networking" amongst themselves via a local network.  (This assumes there is no need for the Rokus and Laptop(s) to interact with each other locally).

As you say, I've noticed that the ethernet/Wi-Fi routers are less expensive and more available than ethernet-only Routers, so I expect that I'll have to go that route - and a WiFi6 unit would make sense in case I must succumb to the Wi-Fi temptation in the future for some now-unanticipated reason(s).

At this point, my Router compatibility concerns are more in the arena of the Spectrum Modem than with the Roku devices.  I need to avoid getting one that won't work with the Modem.

In the past, I've used various Netgear ethernet devices, and one or two Linksys devices - but I have no experience with TP-Link stuff.  Come to think of it, I don't recall any TP-Link Routers on Spectrum's "approved" list.  If so, I wonder if they are not compatible with the Spectrum Modem (or service)?  T.B.D.  Thanks for the links, though.

I suspect that any future need for a Wi-Fi hotspot or connection(s) would be accommodated by enabling the Wi-Fi portion of the Router - although my cellphone supposedly can create a Wi-Fi hotspot (although I've never been able to figure out how to set that up). 

Re Router and Switch functionality:  Not being familiar with the purpose of ethernet Switches (being neither Hub nor Router) I was thinking one might serve as a means to allow multiple devices to connect separately to the Internet (via the Modem).  Apparently, this is not the case, so I'm left puzzled about the actual functional purpose and capability of a Switch.  And, if the Router is responsible for assigning local port/device addresses, then how can a Switch "expand" the ports/devices - without running into the same individual addressing problem as when the Switch connected directly to the Modem.  Is the Router able to "manage" a cascaded Switch, or...??? (Not quite "getting" this aspect).   

About the expansion port-count, the Routers typically have four ethernet ports, so connecting a four-port Switch to the Router would provide a total of six available ethernet ports, correct?  (One port on the Router and one port on the Switch are required for the connection between them)?

Re Firewall:  Yikes!  I had assumed the Cable Modem provides a firewall - and/or there is a "soft" firewall in the laptop's security suite.  If the Modem doesn't provide this, then I'm even more "exposed" than I'd imagined!

Thanks for all the great info!