Discussions

[Visitor45763]

---

@lschopf wrote:

FYI Amazon firestick remotes are known to freeze up & not function. 

---

I saw some reviews about that, but thought it was older (first generation). For $23 USD, I'm going to try it first. I wanted to go with Android/Google/Chrome. But, their products (naming) is confusing. Google doesn't have a history of for-profit, consumer-focused traditional business. Sometimes its offerings look good for a year or two, then disappear (or take a strange turn).

As far as I know, Roku's external streaming devices have good reputations. It's just the Roku TV team that's out of control. If it weren't for Roku's flagrant disregard (if not contempt) for its customers, I'd probably buy one of those. But, it just doesn't feel right. Maybe after I try something else I'll come back to that.

I was wanting to use an external DTV tuner connected to HDMI (leave the tv connected to the internet for streaming). But, my experience with two such tuners has been so-so. The ViewTV AT-300 is essentially broken. They sell other models (the 263?) and it's not clear why one would be purchased instead of the other. The company said the 300 is the latest, so I got that. But, it freezes and reboots. (I've seen reviews saying this is common. So, again, not sure why they're even selling it, or steering people to it. The 263 has good reviews.). The MediaSonic HW-150 is ok. Not too bad. Its interface is the same as the AT-300, almost. The remote's beam is excessively narrow (the AT-300 was better that way). The channel editing/hiding/faving is incredibly tedious. Someone didn't put much thought into that part of the UI. AT-300's seemed a little better there. But, essentially the same. You could hit "2" to hide a channel instead of "0" and "2" on the 150.).

I still have to look at the iView 3500 (planning to do that today.).  I like the DVR recording functionality. I'd like to keep one for that, at least. But, if the iView isn't considerably better in the UI department, I think my idea to use an external tuner (instead of Roku's tuner) is a deadend.

I'd like to have direct number-key access to channels. The old voucher-era DTV converters (Zenith & Digital Stream) worked very pleasantly. Whoever wrote the UI had personal pride in their work. I wish someone would create one of those again for just DTV tuning (not conversion to analog). I just want the nice, friendly, easy (not tedious/difficult) UI. The little things, like accelerated channel changing when holding the remote button longer. And hide/fav checkboxes in the channel editing. And, direct number entry to a channel. (And, not tedious about it. If I press "3" and do nothing more, it should go to 3.1 after four seconds of no further button presses. If no signal, or hidden, go there and say so. I can up/down arrow from there. I used to do that a lot with my DTV converter boxes. If I was sitting at 50, and wanted to go to 7.3, I'd just hit a number somewhere around 7.  It didn't matter. I just wanted to get close. I might hit enter, or not. I just wanted to get close, then scroll up/down fewer channels to where I wanted to really be. I didn't have to precisely enter the entire channel number. The box helped me. It did what it could, instead of getting in the way. These new DVR tuner boxes are a little more "in the way." Not elegant.).

[GolfDotNut]

You have ruined my TV!

I get 50-60 channels through my cable including local HD, no box required. Now I have to scroll through hundreds, HUNDREDS of channels to get to the ones I want.

AND, My TV will not work without Internet.

Thanks Roku geniuses!

[Visitor45763]

---

@GolfDotNut wrote: You have ruined my TV!

---

You probably already saw this: An effective solution is to use home>settings>system>advanced>factory-reset. But, during the initial setup, tell it you don't have internet. It will install a version of software the tv came with,[1] and should work like it used to.

If you watch streaming content too, then buy an inexpensive external streaming box to use on an HDMI port. (I've got one on the way). If you don't like two remotes, look at the URC-7935.

To me that seems like a low-cost way to continue using your tv. Also low-friction (you'll never expose the TV to Roku's untested updates again.).

[1] @sksR has said the factory reset leaves them with the same software. It wouldn't hurt to try it. In my case, Favorites are back. Channel-changing is faster (although it always seemed slow. It's just not as slow as 9.4 made it.). Holding the remote button down causes continuous channel changing again. The "captions on mute" feature works again. (Starting last summer, the captions would remain on when un-muted). I haven't noticed any downside. It's all upside (and I find myself wondering how Roku could think 9.4 is acceptable... FOR MONTHS! They're still pushing it out. Customers have been complaining since last summer.).

My home>settings>system>about says it's still 9.4. But, I have to believe that's another example of Roku's lazy/sloppy development, lack of testing, etc. I.e., they forgot to blank that field. What I'm experiencing with my no-internet factory reset is vastly different than 9.4. I'll never go back. I've got a $30 iView 3500 external DTV tuner to use with my other Roku TV. Number keys on the remote for direct access to channels. Its remote comes with buttons to control the tv. I haven't tried that yet. If it doesn't work well enough, I'll get a URC-7880.

[sksR]

I agree with most of what you said in the workaround is an improvement. I disagree with your comment that factory reset installs the original software that came with the TV, it leaves the most updated version in control

The Roku software appears to have two modes, one dumb TV mode, the other is called connected in their documentation or activated. When you do a factory reset the current software remains but you are moved from the connected mode to dumb TV mode.

Connected money does not work well with live TV version 9.4, it works fine in 9.2.

When it's actually set you stay in version 9.4 but go to dumb TV mode. That allows you to use favorites and quick channel check however the program guide is slightly different in version 9.4 compared to 9.2.

Another way you can tell that you're still in 9.4 after a factory reset is by activating the Roku account and note that there is no automatic software upgrade.

It is extremely unlikely that the version number displayed is in error because developers need to know what version that they are working on as they test. If the version were wrong in its display they would find that fix it to make their life easier.

I concur with most of your conclusions and as a workaround what you say seems very acceptable. Unfortunately it is not a solution for roku's bad software. My comments only relate to a technical I don't you say in this last (and other) posts

[Visitor45763]

@sksR wrote:

When it's actually set you stay in version 9.4 but go to dumb TV mode. That allows you to use favorites and quick channel check however the program guide is slightly different in version 9.4 compared to 9.2.

I don't know as much about it as you do. All I know is that factory-reset (without internet) seems to return the tv back to what it came with. It looks much more like that than 9.4. The only thing that suggests it's 9.4 is that the version number remains displayed (in the "about" screen). Given everything else we've seen with Roku's sloppy/lazy software development, It seems reasonable to believe that's an oversight on their part. (I.e., there's not a lot of reason to believe they'd "find and fix it" when they don't expect people to even use the tv this way. They don't care about bugs that affect people using the tv the way it's expected to be used 99.9% of the time. It's hard to imagine they'd have high standards about a leftover(?) version number when it doesn't even matter.).

@sksR ... it is not a solution for roku's bad software. 

When one views months (years!) of past customer complaints about bugs (and uninspired feature changes), there's no reason to believe Roku's going to straighten up and fly right. (I would be ecstatic if that happened. But, all signs point to this being a very dysfunctional business/customer relationship. With a long history. And, hoping for something better is delusional.) 

So, from that perspective, I'd say factory reset (without internet) most definitely is a solution for Roku's increasingly bad software. I'd love to be proven wrong. But, there's no evidence to expect anything different.

If, as you suggest, the factory-reset (without internet) contains some part of the last update(s), IMO that's a good reason to do it sooner rather than later. Get out while the gettin's good. The way Roku treats its customers, I firmly expect them to break the "dumb tv" mode too, just to remove that option (keeping us monetized as "impressions" for ad and carriage-fee sharing, selling viewing habits, etc.).

If the base (non-updated) version of software is being updated, we're just one update away from Roku breaking that too. All the more reason to protect one's tv from Roku making it worse. (I hope it's not that way for the sake of people who will be affected by future Roku updates. My advice to a new Roku TV buyer is to not connect the tv to the internet at all. Stay with what they've got, and distribute the risk across other connected devices. It's just getting worse, not better, after years of customers voicing the obvious.).

[purrfectpatty]

But today I can't even select a channel from the guide . No matter what I do it just goes to the first channel on my guide. It just keeps getting worse and worse. WTF are you people doing there???

[Visitor45763]

@purrfectpatty , someone else posted that they called Roku phone support about the guide outage, and they weren't even aware of it. They wanted to do scripted troubleshooting steps. 

It's like Roku's not even trying. They didn't even inform the helpdesk "hey guys, we're having a guide outage. You may get some calls." 

Maybe the helpdesk was doing what every does. Just act like nothing's happening. "Thank you, we've passed it along." I've got a feeling that's a toxic place to work. It sounds like Hans Christian Andersen's "King wears no clothes." I bet people have to maintain a straight face and act like all this is normal, and productive, and cultivating goodwill among customers. Nothing wrong. It's free danish day in the cafeteria.

[mikeism]

Recent Accomplishments

NASA Team: 

- Landed a spacecraft on Mars after it traveled approximately 293 million miles.

Roku Team: 

- Removed the Favorites feature from Live-TV and replaced it with 'Recent Channels' which is broken and won't work for over-the-air channels.

- Broke a bunch of other things.

[Harvini]

So, what you're basically saying is that the ROKU staff is not a bunch of "Rocket Scientists".  those folks are all over at NASA building rockets.  I guess its the leftovers that work at ROKU.

[glend123]

The only way they'll try to improve their products is if people stop buying them. I have already bought my last Roku product.