Discussions

[atc98092]

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@Visitor45763 wrote:

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@atc98092 wrote:

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@bachphi wrote:

Is there a solution to this question?

If not, ROKU engineers please give us this option ASAP. Thanks.

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It's possible that whomever Roku contracts with for these channels (Pluto is the likely source) doesn't permit it to happen. If their contract says so, this is all they can offer. 

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That's a good point. But, why merge them in with antenna tv when a Pluto streaming channel/tile already exists? Or, why remove the ability to create a subset of channels (favorites)? Would Pluto view that as violating their terms too? If so, that just begs the question even more: why add them in the first place (except that Roku stands to share carriage fees, and that's more important than customers who just want to watch antenna tv)?

I'm not trying to deny the possibility all of that is true. But, it starts to look like a very bad idea, not merely business reality.

1000 channels you can't individually hide would be usable with a numeric remote. But, Roku's ignored a landslide of customer requests for that (for years). And then, the recent continuous channel-change was turned into a "onesy-daisy, twosy-daisy, I have all day to change channels" (a single channel change per button press) behavior. It's like some kind of harmonic convergence of bad ideas. I can't imagine anyone at Roku watching this trainwreck develop and saying "That's how Pluto wants it. What can I do?" At some point wouldn't the grown ups stand up and say "let's keep it in its own tile. Nobody's going to use it this way?"

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From what I've seen, the channels offered by this method (and both Samsung and LG do the same with their TVs) aren't a complete match of what's on the Pluto TV app/channel. For example, my Samsung TV had the Kitchen Nightmares channel, but the language was censored (bleeped). While Pluto TV has the same channel, it is uncensored. And there are other channels that aren't on both platforms. So that might be a Pluto limitation. If you look at Pluto TV, you cannot show/hide channels there either. 

Why offer them via the OTA channel guide when Pluto has an app on the same device? No idea, but since they do the same with other brands of TVs perhaps Roku thought it best to match the others. 

[Visitor45763]

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@atc98092 wrote:

Why offer them via the OTA channel guide when Pluto has an app on the same device? No idea, but since they do the same with other brands of TVs perhaps Roku thought it best to match the others. 

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Hopefully Roku will discover other "best" ideas like customizable favorites; numeric-keypad remotes & continuous channel changing while holding the up/down buttons, etc.

[bachphi]

UNTIL the Roku geniuses figured out to give us the option. I have decided to use HIDE ALL option.

It's not really worth the hassle  to go thru hundred of worthless channels .

Wasting my time, hurt my finger and my eye sight.

[maclin]

I just got home tonight and saw the new streaming channels on my HTC TV.  I was happy, until I saw Newsmax and OANN.  I don't want that garbage, so went to find how to hide just those kinds of channels.  Looks like it's 'Hide All' or keep them all.  I hid them all.  Didn't see many that I would choose to watch, but there were a couple I would have liked in the guide.  Oh well, maybe that will change in the future.

[NedPepper]

Please just remove this update. I think everyone knows that if they want to watch those stations/channels, just go to the "ROKU  channel" and select "LIVE TV" and boom, there it is, all your 165 stations. Can someone explain why they are pushing this to be incorporated in the TV guide? Nobody seems to want it.

[mikeism]

Bring Favorites back.

[Visitor45763]

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@NedPepper wrote:

Can someone explain why they are pushing this to be incorporated in the TV guide?

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My theory: Watching antenna tv doesn't generate revenue sharing for Roku (carriage fees, ads). We're just baggage. So, Roku renames it "Live TV," then adds 1000+ streaming channels to this new "category."

Favorites is just another enabler of bad habits. (What good will you be to Roku if you just hop around the 10 or so channels in your fav list?). So, that's replaced with "recently viewed" -- which will show you every channel you've scrolled over while changing channels. (Now we can see the pure genius behind refusing customer pleas for numeric remotes for years. A numeric remote would be as bad as favorites! You could just go where you want to, never seeing the channels in between. They'd never be presented to you again in recently viewed either.).

And then, there must be a "length of impression" involved with the loot (er, revenue). So, continuous channel changing is removed. You have to press the arrow button once per channel. Maybe you'll be distracted and stop on a channel with a commission for Roku.

Forget that we paid for our tvs, and didn't realize it was a subscription service that needed ongoing subsidy.

Forget that Roku sells "big data" about your viewing habits (demographics) -- or could sell it if it wanted do. (I assume it does.).

You're just a piggy bank to shake down for more coin.

I'm seriously wondering if all the "my tv just turned 1 year old" problems are actually planned obsolescence. A signal sent to the tv "incur problem #48923." That thought would never have occurred to me until I saw more than a few people suggesting it in google searches. Plus: Apple was discovered doing this with their iPhones. That was a scandal. You'd think any other company would not want to be "that guy." But, when you see how shameless (and perhaps predatory) Roku is, "things that make you go hmmmm."

This whole relationship with Roku reminds me of the movie Misery, where Cathy Bates smashes James Caan's ankles, all while telling him (and firmly believing it herself) that she's helping him. "You'll thank me for this later." There seems to be that kind of loss of reality at Roku. If it's not that, then it's shameful opportunism. Right? Nobody breaks tvs for customers without caring, letting them die on the vine without an answer -- for MONTHS -- without either delusionally believing they're actually helping them, or coldly not caring (like a sociopath). What we see with Roku (I'm not just talking about favorites, I mean everything we see. Mac addresses with 0s for years, ignored for months if not years. Still happening, conveniently to people whose warranties are recently expired). There's no in-between explanation, is there?

It's too late for us. But, reviews on retail sites could help others.

[Harvini]

I suspect your theory may be correct.  In no other consumer product could a manufacturer possibly jam features down the throats of consumers who don't want them, and expect to continue to sell product.  The only conclusion is that the TV isn't the product, but rather the dispensing of specific preferred channels.

In my own case, my once fully functional TV has been crippled by the changes under discussion, for many of the same reasons others have mentioned.  But, in my case, my own circumstances are providing the perfect means of fighting back.  As I am rural in location, my TV/internet service has never been great.  After Hurricane Isaiais, when the phone/DSL carrier that serves me left us hanging for weeks, I had cable TV/Internet brought in (counter to the national trend).  It is a marvelous source of programming and better internet than I previously had.  And, since our OTA antenna was damaged in the hurricane, we have de-emphasized OTA programming and leaned more and more heavily on the cable connection.

The only feature I am currently missing is the OTA pause/replay feature.  But, simply by adding an HDMI recorder inline with the cable signal, I will have eliminated the need for Roku in the OTA/Broadcast side of things.

An open message to Roku:  The changes in my own usage, as reflected in this posting permit me to go out and buy a nice computer monitor with HDMI input and replace all of your "services".  Keep pushing, and you will find one less user in your roster, one less data stream to sell your info customers.

Also to Roku:  Your software changes which were made to accomplish the issues discussed here are highly flawed, and I suspect that other folks than myself are noticing the degradation of operation of the software over time, since install, which indicates a sever instability which may take your whole fleet down on one unfortunate day.

[Visitor45763]

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@Harvini wrote:

I suspect your theory may be correct.  In no other consumer product could a manufacturer possibly jam features down the throats of consumers who don't want them, and expect to continue to sell product.  The only conclusion is that the TV isn't the product, but rather the dispensing of specific preferred channels.

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Maybe also subsidy from the tv maker for obsoleting tvs (after the warranty's up). It wouldn't be hard to send a code to the tv saying "incur problem #27764." "Sorry, time's up." The disturbing thing is: that's a credible suspicion when you see all the conduct of Roku. That conduct is very either/or. Either completely out of touch with the customer, or sociopaths who don't care. If it's the latter, then you have to ask how far would they go to make a buck? (The former is hard to believe a company could be that way this long.). There's no "oops" explanation. It's a long pattern.

I found a list of ironic quotes from the CEO, talking about how they're focused on making the best interface. You read that stuff and you wonder if he believes what he's saying, or thinks we're just too picky (can't see his miraculous vision)? It's weird. It's so profound that it has to be one or the other. Blind ignorance or malignant disregard. There's no in-between explanation like "sorry, with thought we had a good idea. But, we hear our customers and will include them in future beta testings." The message is *always* "you don't matter."

More than one quote has the CEO saying he wants to be Android on the tv. This was before Android was on tv. Now it's like: maybe everything in the past was reasonable for that goal. Android can be touchy too. Not for the average person (the bazaar-style of features and apps). But, now that people can choose between that and Roku trying to be that, what's the reason to choose Roku? If we had Android tvs, we could write a community-developed OTA tuner interface/app. My Android phone lets me stay on old versions of the OS. I have control over updates.

The question to Rokus is: how are you going to compete now? We know what your goal was. What is it now (when your goal has materialized by someone else, and even TCL began offering Android tvs last summer)? Why would someone choose a tv trying to be a different tv? 

I think where Roku's niche would have been to be the Apple of tvs. A curated harware platform they can reasonably support. A cathedral-environment of "it works our way, not your way." Not the bazaar-environment of Android. It's like Roku is the worst of both worlds. They don't have Apple's vision of elegance. And, they can't let go enough like Andoid does. "Cathedral for thee, bazaar for me."

Reviews on retail sites are the only way for people to learn what they're getting into. Complaints to the FTC and a state's AG. I wouldn't expect one complaint to change the world. But, if there's some "there" there, and an AG receives enough complaints over time, there could be an investigation of dirty practices. 

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The only feature I am currently missing is the OTA pause/replay feature.  But, simply by adding an HDMI recorder inline with the cable signal, I will have eliminated the need for Roku in the OTA/Broadcast side of things.

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That's the way I'm leaning now too. Modularization. Roku has set the standard for how ill-advised it is to give anyone that much control over the entire tv. An external streaming box. An external DTV tuner (I have three waiting to try right now). Like you said, maybe all I'd need is a dumb LCD monitor.

It's funny how trends repeat. "Cut the cord" is what led people to Roku. Now we find Roku's no different, and we're looking at how to cut the cord (2.0) with them (or anyone trying to own the entire tv.). Which gets back to how remarkable the CEO's list of quotes are. He's quite unabashed about how he's going to own it all. There's either massive hubris or delusion involved.

I was thinking yesterday: there's been growing political pressure to breakup Google as a monopoly. The implication is that they're impeding competition. I wouldn't be surprised if Roku is used as a perfect example of how market share/opportunity was handed to Google on a silver platter. (I mean, Google didn't hold a gun to Roku demanding that it ignore number remotes for years; or treat customers with the same "disposable" view they want the tv to be viewed as.). Maybe google has a monopoly because of things like this.

[Harvini]

In much of the discussions I have seen regarding this "upgrade", I notice one commmon thread which is being missed by those discussing it.  Probably because they lack the foundation experience to see what I am seeing.

As someone who has managed software development projects since the early 1970's, I can see the oily fingerprints of "Coders" all over the system now running in my TV set.  "Coders" are folks who write code and think they are brilliant.  Software developers or OS developers are folks who grasp the entirety of the hardware and software system they are working on and write code appropriate to the system for the designated end mission.

In my own set, I can witness the locked out "Extra" channels show up from time to time while stepping between channels using UP/Down.  The set occasionally steps to the wrong OTA channel when the UP/DOWN is used to change channels.  There is, of course, the slow channel change when using UP/DOWN, but not when bringing up the On-Screen directory and stepping around in it.

BUT

The On-Screen directory remains frozen, along with the set, on initial startup until some large amount of data is downloaded over the WIFI link.

Within the past weekorso, the set, upon coming up as an OTA set will go to black screen.  there is sound.  there is closed caption.  Just no video iimage.  There used to be, in this very software release, but now one must step into the Main Homepage and then back to OTA to get tuner derived video on-screen.

Again, as someone who has managed large technology development projects, what I am seeing is the laziness of folks who did not actually test their "code" on all known set variants under all conditions.  they got the main features working on a recent set in their work area and called it a day.  They are relying on consumer ignorance or laziness to get away with their own laziness.

I used to recite, as a mantra, the following rule to my guys:  "There is no such thing as a benign software change.  NOT EVER."

If ROKU wants, I or someone like me should becalled in to review what the heck their "coders" have done to an otherwise successful OS  in this past "upgrade", and then correct their misdeeds.