Channels & viewing

[andyross]

Just a note that the current model Express 4K+ is on sale on Amazon for US$29.99. It comes with the voice remote. If you don't need wired Ethernet, it is a good replacement for the Roku 4.

https://www.amazon.com/Roku-Express-Streaming-Wireless-Controls/dp/B0916TKFF2/ 

[FormerRokFan]

I frankly don't understand this business decision.

My 4400x works perfectly fine. I don't have an HDR television. My 70" 4K television works perfectly with my current Roku. I was very satisfied.

The 4400x's quad-core processor is snappy, and from comparison videos seems identical to the Ultra.

The 4400x was well-designed at the time it was released 8 years ago and continues to have full functionality right now. For those of us with optical audio connections, we'd be LOSING functionality by "upgrading" to an Ultra.

No one in this thread has remotely convinced me as a long-term 4400x user why this device is EOL on updates. Surely the 12.0 and 13.0 updates could run on this quad-core platform.

This looks from the outside like an intentional obsolescence to drum up more business. That kind of crass business decision is what drives customers away.

I will certainly never recommend to others, or buy another Roku product again, based on what feels like intentional obsolescence purely to push an upsale purchase upon a once loyal customer.

Roku doesn't even offer me as a 4400x user any discount on an Ultra at all. All I see are voice remote upgrades.

A loyal customer who has been made this disgruntled, this fast, from a bad business decision - with no explanation - should be concerning to Roku, Inc. stockholders.

[andyross]

It has been noted before. The Roku 4 had a UNIQUE chipset that is NOT shared with any other Roku. It is not profitable to keep trying to support something that very few people use. Not even sure if the manufacturer of that chipset supports it, which further makes it hard for Roku to do updates.

As it is, Apple TV+ was NEVER supported on it.

[FormerRokFan]

AR-

Thank you for the reply, and the information.

Your explanation is unfortunately not directed at my main issues:

1. Why cease support when the product retains full functionality?

2. Where have the optical-audio and micro-SD ports gone?

3. Why is there no discount on a replacement for the EOL on a top of the line model?

Btw, I consider AppleTV being disallowed on my Roku device a feature, not a flaw 😉

[atc98092]

1. But it doesn't have full functionality. Since it doesn't have HDR support (admittedly not a factor for you), it's never really had full functionality. As mentioned, it also doesn't support Apple TV+ (again, not a factor for you)
2. Optical ports have fallen out of favor on many devices, not just Roku. But I agree it is a loss for users that don't have a newer AVR with HDMI ports. The SD card is unnecessary since they've increased the channel storage memory to 4GB. The SD card slot could only address about 2GB anyway.
3. I concur that Roku should be offering something for current Roku 4 owners. I gave my 4400 to my granddaughter years ago, and I have no idea if their user account has received any upgrade offer.

The real issue is likely that one-off chip that the 4400 uses. I'm certain that Roku simply doesn't want to support that one single chip any longer. Besides, Roku only supports one other player that is as old as the 4400, and my guess is it's on its last legs as well (the Roku 3). 

[andyross]

1: Again, it's not worth their while to support something that is UNIQUE and has NOTHING shared with other models. Just how long does your phone get full support and updates????

2: Because it has 4GB of channel storage, it no longer needs the SD card slot. I have 46 channels in mine, and it fits fine. The Roku 4 I had before needed a card for that. The optical is gone because it is VERY rarely used these days. If really needed, there are tons of HDMI adapters to convert to all sorts of audio and video outputs.

3: When I had my 4 as my only Roku, I did get an offer for a discounted Ultra. As noted, unless you really need USB or wired Ethernet, the Express 4K+ is a great low-cost replacement. No longer on sale at Amazon, so it's back to the original $40.

[andyross]

Just a note that the Roku 3 probably has continued support because it's chipset may be the same or similar enough to newer models.

Another issue is just how many were originally sold, and are still in use. The Roku 4 was $140 when new. Not sure what the Roku 3 sold for. I'd assume the 4 never sold in large volume, so there aren't that many out there, and probably fewer still active.

[FormerRokFan]

AR -

Thank you again, for your thoughtful reply.

Admittedly, I'm an odd duck that doesn't like to throw perfectly functional devices away. Your phone analogy amusingly doesn't fit me either - I'm still (maybe last in US) using a Blackberry Porsche p9983 as my only phone.

1. If the 4400x had an odd chip - they designed it that way and sold it for 100+ dollars to users (including me). I understand your point about marketshare, but I as a consumer bought a top-of-the-line product that still fully functions. I don't recall a sticker on the 4400x box that said "weird chip, beware". Roku sold it to me as a top product. I expect top product support for such a purchase.

2. Maybe its just me, but I have an older (again fully functional) AV receiver with an optical. To replace what I have set up will actually cost me more now (due to splitter cables, etc.) than I originally bought it for. And, again, for a device that would fully function for literally all of my uses if they'd just release 12.0 for it.

3. I am curious why some users got Ultra upgrade offers, and others didn't. Or maybe I just missed the window? Regardless, wouldn't you think a good business decision would be to continue to make that offer for current users of the 4400x? How much would that cost them to keep supplying current customers who have brand loyalty?

3a. And, (by now, surely you would expect), I use my Roku4 4400x with wired RJ45 ethernet, so the cheaper alternatives you suggest, unfortunately, aren't an option.

Roku is a great idea and company who should be seeking to keep their brand loyalty high. People who come to this device largely do it because they want an alternative to Walmart and Amazon and Apple (none of whom I will do business with). I would think the userbase, if it were more vocal, could encourage some better business decisions.

In any event, it would seem I will never buy another device from Roku under these current practices, and my 4400x will continue to become more and more unusable because they can't be bothered to compile future updates for my quite functional (but odd duck) quad processor with 1.5GB of RAM.

It's a pity. I really love this device.

[Strega]

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@FormerRokFan wrote:

A loyal customer who has been made this disgruntled, this fast, from a bad business decision - with no explanation - should be concerning to Roku, Inc. stockholders.

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As a shareholder, (of Roku and many other companies – via mutual funds) I have to say that every customer support forum I have ever been to has disgruntled customers.  I have never been to a forum with 100% fully-gruntled customers. 

The problem is that customers can get unhappy about anything.  You ask what happened to SD cards.  Well, where were you when people were complaining here about SD cards and asking why Roku just didn’t put enough memory in in the first place?  People were still complaining about that years after Roku stopped making models with SD cards.  You consider the lack of service A (Apple) to be a feature, yet the lack of service D (Disney) to be a flaw, but someone else could say the opposite.  In fact, someone posted a Boycott Disney thread a few months ago.  Optical?  That has always been rare with Roku.  It looks like the last such player came out in 2016.  Generally, the answer to questions like that is: They keep making them as long as people keep paying for them.  However, it turns out that people with old equipment don’t tend to add to it. 

25 years ago I worked at major PC company that had an idea for joint projects with Consumer Electronic companies.  We would push the idea that you could upgrade your stereo via windows update – cool right?  The reply again and again was:  That’s not our business model.  Our model is to make the most attractive model, put it on the market, then ignore it and design the next one.

Sometimes if thousands of users complain, something does get changed.  Hundreds?  Probably not so much. 

I guess my bottom line as a shareholder is: Make as many customers as happy as you reasonably can, but don’t let the tail wag the dog.

[TripodBob38]

So I guess this would be a bad time to remind every one debating this moot point about streaming device support that the deadline for HDMI Ver2.1 mandate for all Disney channels effective July 1st.  This means all TV and cables must support HDMI 2.1 or greater before Disney controlled content can be viewed.  So not only do you have to replace a streaming device, you will be forced to replace your TV as well.

Then there is the Mar 1, 2024 deadline Disney has set for HDMI 2.2, which has yet to be ratified or adopted yet, that basically dictates that there can be no other device between video source and the TV. So if your TV only has two HDMI ports and you use a switch to connect other devices such as game consoles you will be forced to physically disconnect everything other than the video source such as a Roku device in order to play Disney content. Also in this version if a TV has multiple HDMI ports (i.e. 6 ports) all connected devices must support version 2.1 or higher, or be disconnected to play content.  Currently there is debate about version 2.2 regarding two requirements Disney is demanding to be included. 1) Content providers must be allowed to search & catalog all devices connected to a TV at the time of viewing. 2) Both the video source device AND the display screen must be internet connected without exception.

So how about ignoring the debate over a dated device and focus on the bigger far more serious threat - Disney.  Face it, the executives at Disney are just pure evil.