I've got a TCL Model 55S405, running Roku Software version 10.0.0. I have an audio amplifier plugged into the TV's headphone jack and have problems with loud commercials on the Roku Channel and also Hulu. I wanted to try Volume Leveling to help with that, but I can't set that option. Both Sounds Mode and Volume Mode options are grayed out and set to "Normal".After much back and forth with Roku Support, I found that if I unplug the headphone, I'm now able to change those audio options. But that's not an acceptable solution. We use the external amplifier to give us better sound than the TV's internal audio and also to drive speakers in other rooms.Is there another way to use an amplifier and still enable Volume Leveling?

StreamerUser wrote:Plugging an amplifier into a device's HEADPHONES jack to drive external SPEAKERS isnt exactly a good or supported solution (this isn't 1990 or even 2000), especially considering there are digital audio output options (HDMI/ARC, Optical) either of which can be sent to an amplifier/AVR/Soundbar either directly or via a splitter/extractor:e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Converter-Support-Digital-Coaxial/dp/B0919Y12B3/There are many similar devices, between $10-20 - find one that meets your needs.It's funny that you say "this isn't 1990 or even 2000". The amplifier I'm using is a Realistic SA-150. Realistic is a brand name for electronics produced by the nearly defunct Radio Shack. The Realistic brand was phased out in the mid-1990's, and this particular amplifier was introduced in 1984. There's a fair chance that this little amplifier is older than you :smileyvery-happy:. I got it from a second-hand store probably 10 years ago, although I would have been old enough to buy this when it was new (the "58" in my username is a hint at that). So go ahead and "OK Boomer" me all you want. Just stay off my lawn! :)Anyway, I disagree that using the headphone output to drive this amp is a bad idea. Amplifiers, even way back then, commonly accepted headphone outputs as their input. Also, according to the manual for my TV, You can connect headphones or an analog sound bar (not provided) to the TV’sheadphone jack.Tip: Inserting a plug in the headphone jack disables the sound from the TV’s built-inspeakers.Warning: Loud noise can damage your hearing. When using headphones, use thelowest volume setting on your headphones that still lets you hear the sound.And from TCL's blog:ANALOG AUDIO OUTPUTAll TCL TVs have an ANALOG AUDIO OUTPUT in the form of a 3.5 mm jack. With this, you can send analog audio to headphones, a sound bar, or a home receiver. Note you may need an adapter cable to go from 3.5mm to RCA L/R audio…only a couple of bucks.So it appears that driving other devices is a supported function. A home receiver isn't any different than a 1980's audio amplifier.I left in that "Warning" from the manual to highlight why I think this TV's firmware design is defective. Loud sounds can indeed damage hearing, especially when wearing headphones, so why would Roku disable the ability to help prevent such damage by not allowing the Volume Leveling mode? It doesn't make any sense at all. You could be watching a show and then a commercial comes on with that idiotic blast in volume. It might take some legal action to get Roku to make any changes, though. But, hey, I've got tinnitus (the "58" in my username is a hint at why). Maybe I need to go that direction? (Just kidding) :)However, with all that said, it appears to be the way it is. I wasn't aware that those ARC and SPDIF converters are that inexpensive. I wasn't even aware this TV had an ARC port, as I'm using that one for my Chromecast HDMI. I will definitely look into those adapters. Thanks for that info. That second-hand shop is now out of business, so I may have to buy new. :)And just for kicks...

Sorry, not convinced of the Bad Idea (tm) part. If the headphone channel is noisy, then it's out of my family's audible range. But then my mother-in-law is pretty deaf and needs closed captions. And my wife and I are in our 60's, so any noise is either too low for our ears to pick up, or its frequency is up in the teenager range. As for it being analog, well, this boomer lived with an analog world for quite a while, and it served the world pretty well. I didn't pick an analog solution for any reasons other than it not only worked better than the hollow-sounding TV speakers, but has been plenty fine for us all these years. And it was cheap. "Warm" sound isn't an issue. I'm not audiophile enough to hear any difference between analog and digital sound.Since analog is plenty good enough, going digital will only add a level of complexity, which is another possible point of failure. It now depends on how good the DACs are in those little $15 boxes. Will Volume Leveling actually pass through the ARC or TOSLINK ports? I know that Leveling works to quiet those annoying commercials through the tinny TV speakers. But will it limit the volume through those digital ports? It's going to cost me 15 bucks to find out, I guess.However, I don't know what you mean by "fixed/variable". The only auto-sensing I can see could be done with the old fashioned mechanical contacts that come with headphone connectors. When you plug the headphones in, contacts break open, and that was used as a dumb way to turn off speakers in those old radios, cassette players, and whatever.I run the headphone output through a headphone to RCA L/R jack adapter. If I unplug the RCAs, leaving an open adapter plug in the headphone output, I still can't enable Volume Leveling. Same if I plug in actual headphones. And with the headphones I get loud commercials. So if there's any additional sensing, the TV isn't using it.I still maintain that the headphone output would be a perfectly acceptable solution to drive my amplifier *if* the TV's firmware design let the TV functioned as it should. It *should* let me enable Volume Leveling, but it doesn't.So, between the Roku Channel's (and Hulu's, too) jerk-brained decision to blast their commercials and Roku's defective TV firmware design, I'm being forced to buy a gadget that may or may not solve the problem. It may or may not add its own problems. Or I could continue hitting the mute button. I've gotten good at muting just the commercials, but I still might want a more automatic solution.

Well... There still isn't unanimous consensus that digital is clearly superior to analog, at least in the audio spectrum. Many audiophiles today still insist that analog is better. They use vague qualities such as "warm" and "airy". And if you only consider the playback itself, and not the media (for now), the best argument you'll find from the digital proponents is that digital is "Just As Good"(tm) as analog, at least to human ears. But, technically, digital can't be anything more than a close approximation of the analog signal.You probably already know this, but for those tuning in who don't - The output from a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) consists of a bunch of "steps" that come close to the smooth curves of the analog source. There are plenty of good drawings of this online, here's one:The closer you place those steps together, both horizontally (that's the sampling rate) and vertically (that's the bit depth), the better your digital output will come to the actual analog input. It can never equal the analog source, but to my unrefined ears, I hear no difference between the old-fashioned CDs and the older-fashioned vinyl records. So I agree with the digital folks that digital is "Just As Good"(tm) as analog.Where digital really shines is in the media. First off, records and magnetic tape media (reel-to-reel for the snooty audiophiles and cassette for the unwashed masses) degrade over time and usage. No matter how low mass your stylus is, it's still dragging over a softer vinyl track, so you lose response that way. And if you don't play that record in a vacuum, it'll get dirty and you'll hear those "warm" pops and skips. Magnetic tape drags over the player's pickup and can wear out, and also pick up dirt.Digital hard media (CDs and DVDs), however, can tolerate nasty stuff like dust and fingerprints because the digital bits themselves have a much higher signal to noise ratio, since they only need to be a '1' or a '0', not some tiny analog variation. And solid state memory based devices (USB sticks, computer memory, ...) are just bits stored somewhere, with no real physical properties. Which brings me to the best point - reproduction.You can make copies of copies of copies of digital media and it will exactly duplicate the original. Not so with analog. Even vinyl record masters wear out eventually.So why am I stating what most people already know? It's because my little solution to driving speakers from my TV is still mostly digital. Here are a couple "block diagrams" of two solutions. They're color coded - Black is the cable company or streaming service (Roku, Hulu, Netflix, ... infinity). Blue is the TV hardware. Red is my home hardware. And green is that little ARC/SPDIF converter box hardware.| Digital source |--->| DAC |--->| Headphone amp |===>| Amplifier |===>| Speakers || Digital source |--->| HDMI/ARC/TOSLink drivers |--->| DAC |--->| Low-level output amp |===>| Amplifier |===>| Speakers |All the benefits of digital are right there at the cable company or streaming service. Eventually the audio needs to go analog to get to my ears, so adding that Amazon box is just moving similar hardware from inside the TV to outside. That's actually extra complexity, more connectors, more drivers/receivers, ... more places for things to fail.One argument not made in digital's favor is that the transmission media is better digitally. That's because it isn't. At audio frequencies and even the somewhat low amplitudes of headphone output, the signal to noise ratio is plenty high enough to allow the signal to allow noise-free listening. Digital transmission is a vast improvement in the RF world, where the S/N is way down in the weeds.So the only reason at all to go digital is to work around Roku's functionality deficiencies. I did Post on the Wishlist board about this, and also made the same suggestions, and reasoning, on my Support ticket, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I just hope that the gadget converter I get performs as well as my headphone cable and that Roku process their Volume Leveling to the digital outputs. I'll probably go with SPDIF, as I've only got one spare HDMI port and may need that for my grandson's X-Box.

Yeah, I did mean Optical. Don't know why SPDIF was stuck in my head. I came across that term when looking up what ARC was and it stuck just like the theme song for The Andy Griffith Show sticks.

I have to agree with @Irony58, I've used devices headphone jacks out, for all kinds of reasons, to mixers, powered & unpowered, recording devices, powered speakers, etc. And while not an engineer or audiophile, I have been a pro musician for many years, and am considered to have really good "ears". I also greatly prefer the sound & feel (as sound is actually felt, which is how our ears hear) of analog records, over CDs, and mini-discs (& even well recorded initial versions of cassettes) over CDs as well. In fact, I made a demo album solely taken from live recordings on a cheap Sharp mini-disc recorder, and one musician who heard it was very impressed with how warm it sounded, and wondered how I got such a good sound. One thing that's an absolute, is that listening to music is about the most subjective experience we humans can have, so to speak in absolutes, or in any way beyond making a judgement just a personal choice, is plain pointless. For you can't convince someone A sounds "better" than B, via specs or even science, if they don't think it sounds better... the same as one's choice in favorite music to listen to can be via an argument...So I don't agree that driving external speakers via a headphone out "isn't exactly good", especially when Irony58, and I both think "it is good". Not sure what you even mean by "isn't exactly good", for what, the speakers, the TV, or? ;-)

TCL Roku TV can't enable Volume Leveling with headphone plugged in

15 Replies

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gggirlgeek
Newbie
3 years ago
Your problem with lack of volume leveling is the bane of my existence. I live in an apartment with thin walls and noise-phobic neighbors. I often have to simply disconnect my sub woofer.
I don't buy TV's that don't have a line out port separate from the headphone jack. If it doesn't have a headphone jack, I make sure the analog audio output at least supports PCM pass through surround sound or it's RCA-out. I bought an Insignia TV with only a headphone jack and my sound through my Philips RCA-only receiver is terrible. It's much better on my Vizio TV that has RCA-out.
The thing I have to do with my thin walls to watch high quality movies is turn off all surround sound or Dolby digital settings on my receiver. I keep it to 2.0 stereo. I also use an old program called "AC3 File" on my PC for its "DRC" normalization. Only MPC-HC or Windows Media Player/Center works with it though. In Plex Player I use Windows and sometimes Realtek settings to turn off all enhanced theater sound effects. (Plex normalization causes the server to transcode files, which opens Pandora's Box for me.) If using Plex for HDR, on a smart device instead of Windows, I simply can't use it during quiet hours. However, in Windows, I have found turning off the Bass Management effect keeps the Bass down. The Loudness leveling sometimes make it worse and sometimes better depending on the setup. Try both.
I have been able to get the uneven sound to stop, even with Sound Leveling turned off on my Vizio TV's settings (because it produces a strange dampening effect.) I had to play with my speaker/TV/PC settings until I found the right combo. In my speaker settings I turned off Dolby and Multi-channel (used Stereo instead.) I also turned the equalizer to "Classical" because all levels are flat -- or maybe you can turn your equalizer off? Try turning your Bass balance way down. If you have a Midrange setting turn that up while turning Treble down too.
I have read that some amps or sound systems have a "Loudness" setting that might help. Your setup seems like it might have this? Supposedly it was popular with older stereos. I haven't found any newer systems with this "knob" yet. I'm also tempted to try and find a hardware equalizer to attempt to isolate the frequencies that are most bothersome, but that won't help with commercials so it's only a partial solution.
As far as software settings, what's really needed is channel control. All channels other than the center channel need to be turned down. If the setup is 2.1, the left and right channels should be turned up while the LFE sub woofer channel is turned down. Some software players (MPC-HC) have settings for this and it can help but I haven't had complete luck with it. Plex doesn't have anything like this. If you come across something other than the "AC3 File" software that I mentioned earlier, PLEASE let me know!
I will say that I've been driven to download video files with the commercials removed because of this problem. It might be in the interest of advertisers to help technology developers overcome this, or just stop raising the volume of their commercials! This along with making commercials less repetitive and intrusive might get people to actually enjoy them.
- gggirlgeek
  Newbie
  3 years ago
  I, personally, don't think there is any legitimate argument that digital is better than analog. All digital is simply trying to reproduce the "live" quality of an ideal analog setup. There are only convenient advantages to digital sound because it is attached to devices that can manipulate it. It is also isolated until it gets to the speakers, meaning outside noise cannot interfere with it (like audience members coughing over a recording through an expensive microphone.) This makes it easier to hear clean sound through a digital source. Ideal, clean analog conditions are expensive and difficult to set up. Digital can be difficult too (look at us all talking about settings) but its not as expensive once the effort is made.
  - gggirlgeek
    Newbie
    3 years ago
    What I want to know is why I haven't found any hardware to actually connect to the 8 sound jacks in the back of my 7.1 surround computer? The digital/analog debate is pointless unless you can actually physically connect 6 or 8 speakers to get true surround analog sound. Anything else is just reproduced, synthetic surround. Because of this, digital sound has the advantage right now because we don't actually have a way of setting up individual analog connections in order to hear unmanipulated sound from consumer-level devices (outside of a professional environment with expensive equipment that DOES have individual connections.)
    Yes, my computer-source is digital so I'm disregarding that and not calling it "digital sound." I still think we could have the advantage of digital storage if it's connected to hardware that doesn't manipulate it, and actually outputs each channel over individual, physical connections.
StreamerUser
Roku Guru
5 years ago
Irony58 wrote:
I've got a TCL Model 55S405, running Roku Software version 10.0.0. I have an audio amplifier plugged into the TV's headphone jack and have problems with loud commercials on the Roku Channel and also Hulu. I wanted to try Volume Leveling to help with that, but I can't set that option. Both Sounds Mode and Volume Mode options are grayed out and set to "Normal".
After much back and forth with Roku Support, I found that if I unplug the headphone, I'm now able to change those audio options. But that's not an acceptable solution. We use the external amplifier to give us better sound than the TV's internal audio and also to drive speakers in other rooms.
Is there another way to use an amplifier and still enable Volume Leveling?

Plugging an amplifier into a device's HEADPHONES jack to drive external SPEAKERS isnt exactly a good or supported solution (this isn't 1990 or even 2000), especially considering there are digital audio output options (HDMI/ARC, Optical) either of which can be sent to an amplifier/AVR/Soundbar either directly or via a splitter/extractor:
e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Converter-Support-Digital-Coaxial/dp/B0919Y12B3/
There are many similar devices, between $10-20 - find one that meets your needs.
- StevenCee
  Roku Guru
  4 years ago
  I have to agree with @Irony58, I've used devices headphone jacks out, for all kinds of reasons, to mixers, powered & unpowered, recording devices, powered speakers, etc. And while not an engineer or audiophile, I have been a pro musician for many years, and am considered to have really good "ears". I also greatly prefer the sound & feel (as sound is actually felt, which is how our ears hear) of analog records, over CDs, and mini-discs (& even well recorded initial versions of cassettes) over CDs as well. In fact, I made a demo album solely taken from live recordings on a cheap Sharp mini-disc recorder, and one musician who heard it was very impressed with how warm it sounded, and wondered how I got such a good sound.
  
  One thing that's an absolute, is that listening to music is about the most subjective experience we humans can have, so to speak in absolutes, or in any way beyond making a judgement just a personal choice, is plain pointless. For you can't convince someone A sounds "better" than B, via specs or even science, if they don't think it sounds better... the same as one's choice in favorite music to listen to can be via an argument...
  
  So I don't agree that driving external speakers via a headphone out "isn't exactly good", especially when Irony58, and I both think "it is good". Not sure what you even mean by "isn't exactly good", for what, the speakers, the TV, or? ;-)
- Irony58
  Streaming Star
  5 years ago
  StreamerUser wrote:
  Plugging an amplifier into a device's HEADPHONES jack to drive external SPEAKERS isnt exactly a good or supported solution (this isn't 1990 or even 2000), especially considering there are digital audio output options (HDMI/ARC, Optical) either of which can be sent to an amplifier/AVR/Soundbar either directly or via a splitter/extractor:
  e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Converter-Support-Digital-Coaxial/dp/B0919Y12B3/
  There are many similar devices, between $10-20 - find one that meets your needs.
  It's funny that you say "this isn't 1990 or even 2000". The amplifier I'm using is a Realistic SA-150. Realistic is a brand name for electronics produced by the nearly defunct Radio Shack. The Realistic brand was phased out in the mid-1990's, and this particular amplifier was introduced in 1984. There's a fair chance that this little amplifier is older than you :smileyvery-happy:. I got it from a second-hand store probably 10 years ago, although I would have been old enough to buy this when it was new (the "58" in my username is a hint at that). So go ahead and "OK Boomer" me all you want. Just stay off my lawn! :)
  Anyway, I disagree that using the headphone output to drive this amp is a bad idea. Amplifiers, even way back then, commonly accepted headphone outputs as their input. Also, according to the manual for my TV,
  You can connect headphones or an analog sound bar (not provided) to the TV’s
  headphone jack.
  Tip: Inserting a plug in the headphone jack disables the sound from the TV’s built-in
  speakers.
  Warning: Loud noise can damage your hearing. When using headphones, use the
  lowest volume setting on your headphones that still lets you hear the sound.
  And from TCL's blog:
  ANALOG AUDIO OUTPUT
  All TCL TVs have an ANALOG AUDIO OUTPUT in the form of a 3.5 mm jack. With this, you can send analog audio to headphones, a sound bar, or a home receiver. Note you may need an adapter cable to go from 3.5mm to RCA L/R audio…only a couple of bucks.
  So it appears that driving other devices is a supported function. A home receiver isn't any different than a 1980's audio amplifier.
  I left in that "Warning" from the manual to highlight why I think this TV's firmware design is defective. Loud sounds can indeed damage hearing, especially when wearing headphones, so why would Roku disable the ability to help prevent such damage by not allowing the Volume Leveling mode? It doesn't make any sense at all. You could be watching a show and then a commercial comes on with that idiotic blast in volume. It might take some legal action to get Roku to make any changes, though. But, hey, I've got tinnitus (the "58" in my username is a hint at why). Maybe I need to go that direction? (Just kidding) :)
  However, with all that said, it appears to be the way it is. I wasn't aware that those ARC and SPDIF converters are that inexpensive. I wasn't even aware this TV had an ARC port, as I'm using that one for my Chromecast HDMI. I will definitely look into those adapters. Thanks for that info. That second-hand shop is now out of business, so I may have to buy new. :)
  And just for kicks...
  - gggirlgeek
    Newbie
    3 years ago
    Holy retro, Batman! That's a good amplifier. My Dad (75 years old) has that exact unit as a part of an entire Realistic/Pioneer setup. We got it in 1979 and it's an amazing system. It's still the backbone of his current system -- to which he's added satellite sound for the whole house, and an in-floor sub woofer for the family theater (with a 200ish-inch projector screen.) As a side note: The projector is analog but it still kicks any digital screen's tail when it comes to Blue Ray movies. He has NONE of the image issues that I'm having with all new flat screen TV's on my PC or streaming sticks. (Admittedly, he's not getting HDR, but sitting 8 feet from a 200-inch screen in analogue might just be as good or better.) This stereo system, and his tool-set are the only things I hope to inherit some day.

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TCL Roku TV can't enable Volume Leveling with headphone plugged in

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