AvsGunnar:
Oh, so Spectrum is "blowing smoke" when they try to limit customers to "approved" Routers? Interesting... Could it be because certain Routers allow them more access - so they can control more of "your" local network? But, if that restriction is bogus and can be ignored, then it sure opens up a lot more possibilities for finding a practical Router.
The cable-routing considerations that you mention also seem to open more/better options for me.
When a new device is added to a (Router-based) local network, and the initial "negotiations" have been successful, just what ID information gets stored where? And how "persistent" is that information? (Primarily wondering what happens when a "registered" device gets disconnected and then re-connected or if there is a power outage). I assume that the MAC is "built into" the device itself, but what about the "dynamic" information?
I didn't realize that Routers can/do create separate local networks on each port... I had just assumed that it was all one local network. Now, I'm curious whether such separate networks offer any advantage(s) for my limited network?
The combination of all I've learned today only reinforces my original thought to get a combo ethernet/Wi-Fi Router whose Wi-Fi functions can be disabled separately from the ethernet functions. Again, that seems to open more palatable options.
I do not think that I properly understand "hotspots" - which I thought were wireless Internet portals for Smartphones via Cell service. Are they instead more akin to wireless counterparts of the hardware Modem/Router combination? Not being a significant user of either Wi-Fi or Cell, this stuff is foreign to me. In any case, what would I need a hotspot for in this situation?
Wow! This exchange already has been very enlightening - on several fronts; thanks guys!
Spectrum isn't really blowing smoke, nor is any other ISP that provides a list of recommended/compatible equipment.
The confusion lies with the terminology. Only a modem needs to be ISP compatible.
Most routers on the market are actually a modem and router combined. Therefore, if you decide to just buy one piece of equipment (a router with a built-in modem), then that router has to be on the ISP recommended.compatible list so that it works with their "internet network". (this is the WAN portion of a network).
Your current piece of equipment, the Hitron en2251 is just a modem, not a router.
Other Spectrum customers may have been issued a modem/router combo unit. (Spectrum usually provides Arris SBG models to their residential customers). Therefore, if these customers wanted to add their own router to their network, they could either (a) buy a Spectrum-compatible modem/router and send back their leased Arris model to Spectrum, or (b)place the Arris model into a Bridge Mode (in order to disable the DHCP server and make their modem/router into a modem-only mode, and then connect "any" router after the Arris to handle the routing needs of the network. (the DHCP would be enabled on the new router).
Only the piece of equipment that is the gateway to the internet has to be ISP compatible. (ISP means Internet Service Provider).
You currently have an ideal setup regarding ease. When you purchase your new router, you will just place it into "router mode" and hook it up to your existing modem. You will likely have very little initial configuration to do on the router to just get up and going.
I also think your new decision to consider a wifi router is a good choice. You have plenty to choose from in all price points and you can disable/enable features as your needs change. It is normally best to just start with a simple, basic network and then customize it as you go. Too many get stuck on designing a network that covers everything but will likely never use. (don't confuse this with doing research making sure you are buying the right things for your current needs).
Since all you are trying to accomplish is connect a few streaming devices and your laptop to your internet, a reasonably priced wifi6 router and your existing Netgear 8-port switch are all you need for a decent, working home network. (again, if you keep the Hitron in place, you just need any router. If you decide to swap out the Hitron, you will need a router that is Spectrum-compatible because you will also be using it as a modem). I would suggest keeping the Hitron in place for now for your modem.
Two recent postings by Tivoburkee (remote expert around here) seem to address the situation you are having.
https://community.roku.com/t5/Remotes/Pairing-a-simple-remote-to-one-tv/m-p/988396#M51963
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Basically, if you purchase another Voice Remote for use with your 3960, that should resolve your issue with the IR conflicts. (each Voice Remote will pair to their respective device and stop the conflict).
However, if you are still in the return window for the Express 3960, then I would return it and purchase another Express 4k+ 3941 which will come with a Voice Remote. The Voice Remote options start at $20 so just seems to make more sense to purchase a device that comes with it.
edited to add... By the way, which TP Link router did you end up going with?
Almost all Roku players come with a WiFi RF remote. Only the basic Roku Express and the older Roku Express 4K (3940) came with IR remotes. That said, you can certainly use an IR remote on any Roku player except the Roku Stick players, which are RF only. But you don't want IR remotes, because they WILL control both Rokus and there's no way to stop it.
RF players are normally only paired to a single player. It's probably an accident that one of the was programmed to control both. You can go into the Settings/Remote menu and remove the unwanted RF remote from that player, so you can have control of each device separately.
No, the switch will not work without power. It's possible they linked up to your WiFi before you powered the switch on.
No problems with the difference between WiFi 5 and 6. The Rokus don't support WiFi 6, and honestly it's still something that isn't supported by a lot of devices. The only real difference between 5 and 6 is the maximum possible connection speed. Since your Internet is around 100 Mbps, WiFi 5 is capable of far more than that.
Glad you got the new router up and running easily. You should be good to go now. 🙂
AvsGunnar:
OK, I'm a little "tainted" by Spectrum, so after hearing/seeing everything they've put out that implies an "approved" Router must be used - or else - your revelation "tweeked" me a bit. So, thanks for your explanation.
Speaking of Arris, one of the prior Modems they supplied to me was an Arris - but they "upgraded" the equipment from time to time, and the Hiltron is what I ended up with. Apparently, that was fortuitous for my current situation. 🙂
In any case, the good news is that I found locally what seems to be a good deal on a TP-Link Router that sounds like it should suffice. I hooked things up for testing and it was pretty much plug'n'play (No apparent glitches nor headaches during setup of the hardware, nor activation of the Rokus. Everything seemed to play fine - even the Wi-fi - although figuring out the navigation of the Roku environment seems daunting out of the gate). The downside of the setup is that I encountered an unanticipated problem with the Roku remotes which may be a bit of a show-stopper for my intended use: I thought that at least the basic Roku remote was IR - but both behave as if they are RF, with either remote operating both Rokus at the same time (even though the audio remote was "paired" with the Express 4K+). This seems to be true even when one of the Rokus are "shaded" from the remote. So, the problem is how I will be able to operate the two Rokus independently. (I haven't yet looked into this, so hopefully there is a simple "fix").
Another oddity that I didn't stop to check out was when I moved the Rokus off of the Router and inserted the Switch into the network, the Rokus started working as soon as their ethernet cables were connected to the Switch - before I powered-up the Switch! Weird! But it makes me wonder if the Switch can be used un-powered - thus saving some electricity.
Otherwise, things seem to work fine: No internet issues with the Laptop, and no streaming issues noticed with both Rokus running and the Laptop active all at once. The only "oops" was I had an eye-fart - or perhaps a brain-fart - at the store, and brought home a Wifi5 Router that I could have sworn said "Wifi6" at the store. What sort of issue(s) could this 5 vs 6 cause?
Thanks again for all your good advice about resolving this situation!
atc98092:
Regarding the Roku remotes, the Express came with the non-audio remote that has what appears to be an IR "window" under its nose, while the audio remote included with the Express 4K+ has no such "window" in its housing. Also, both Expresses have what appear to be IR "windows" on their faces, with a strip-off sticker showing a bullseye to aim the remote at. At some point during the set-up, at least one (if not both) of the Rokus presented a selection screen for IR or CEC (or some such - no idea what that is), with the IR mode selected. Even though I accepted the IR selection, it sure appears the remotes are not operating via IR. Not sure how to alter that.
Also during its set-up, the Express 4K+ presented a pairing step for the audio control and then also had a step for selecting the TV to be controlled. In any case, it appears that the audio control is not paired with only the Express 4K+ (because it controls both Expresses).
In any case, I'm wondering how to select which of the Rokus a remote will control - so they can be used concurrently without both of them responding to all remote commands. If one actually worked via IR and the other via RF... and if one Roku could be configured to respond only to IR and the other only to RF, then I assume the Rokus could be controlled independently. Or, perhaps there is some other way to deal with this? (It appears that only one remote is associated with each Roku in its respective settings, and both are set as IR mode). Puzzling.
Too bad the Switch has to be powered... but good that WiFi5 is appropriate for my network. 🙂
OK, it appears you have IR remotes. There is no way to separate them from controlling both devices at the same time. You have to have at least one RF remote, and then you could block the IR window on the Roku that you pair it with, and it won’t respond to the IR. I thought both of your Roku players were express 4K+ models which come with RF remotes. Every Roku player has an IR window except for the Stick models. Even models that come with an RF remote.
CEC is a protocol that can control devices through the HDMI cable. With mine, that means the volume buttons on the Roku remote can control my AVR or TV without requiring code learning. Some people like it, some don’t.
Your Roku Express 3960 comes with an IR remote/IR receiver. (this will be the remote lacking the microphone/voice button).
https://www.roku.com/products/roku-express
Your Roku Express 4k+ 3941 comes with the RF remote/Voice Remote.
https://www.roku.com/products/roku-express-4k-plus
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If you are setting up the devices while they are near each other, then make sure to unplug one of them from power while setting up the remotes.
Set up the 3941 with the Voice remote. When the screen asks for IR or CEC, that is asking for TV control preference. (volume, mute,power). I normally just select IR.
I'm actually not sure if once the Voice Remote is paired to the 3941 if it will still control the 3960 due to the IR receiver issue.
Setup the 3960 with the standard remote (simple remote, now known as Players Remote). Since an IR device needs no pairing, it will just automatically work with the 3960. You wont have any TV controls with the standard remote.
https://www.roku.com/products/accessories (differences between remotes here),
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Once you place the Roku devices into seperate rooms, you shouldn't have an issue with conflicts. If they remain side by side, you may. May want to trade that 3960 in for another 3941 so you can get another Voice Remote. When Voice Remotes are paired to the device, they are tied to that device and will not conflict with each other. (ie. will only control the device they are paired with).
AvsGunnar & ats98092:
The remotes situation is baffling: Both behave as if they are using RF (or perhaps both RF and IR) in the sense that shading the Roku units, or aiming the remotes away from the Rokus, or otherwise obstructing the IR path between the remotes and the Rokus, has little or no effect on whether the Rokus respond to a remote. As you said, the specs claimed that the Express's basic remote uses IR, while the Express 4K+'s remote uses RF - and this appears to be confirmed by the presence or lack of IR "windows" on the respective remotes, so I don't understand the behaviors that I'm seeing.
As far as my Roku application goes, I have two TV's in a "living room" and two TVs in an upstairs bedroom. In each case, I may operate both TVs in the given room at the same time - mainly in the case of using one to monitor bad weather while watching a show on the other TV, or in the case of trying to follow two NFL games or other shows at once. My expectation was to install a Roku on each of the four TVs, so the two Rokus in a given room would be active at the same time in the situations I mentioned. Hence the issue with a Roku remote controlling both Rokus instead of only one.
One of the reasons that I got an Express and an Express 4K+ to try out was to (hopefully) avoid this sort of conflict since one Roku would be controlled via IR and the other via RF. But with things behaving as they do, it makes me wonder if the Rokus are receiving commands by both IR and RF. Also, I expected that the audio remote, being paired with the Express 4K+, would operate only the 4K+, and not control the Express. Frustratingly, both remotes control both Rokus - despite the pairing, and in spite of my attempts to block the IR path. No idea what's actually going on nor how to resolve the unwanted dual control behavior. Theoretically, two of the audio remotes could be used, each paired with only one Roku, thus avoiding conflicts - but from what I've observed, I have my doubts about this working either.
Any ideas how to determine what's happening and to get each remote to control only its respective Roku?
Guys, revisiting the Router business, I'm wondering what recommendations you may have in terms of setting security options. On my new TP-Link Router, I didn't see much of any "adjustments" for Firewall, but I wondered about a couple other security aspects that I ran across:
First, there is an option to have two separate (Wi-Fi) networks, one for each frequency, and with separate SSIDs and passwords - or to use the same SSID and password for both networks. Is there any particular risk with using the same SSID and password (PIN?) for both frequency networks? (This is mainly from curiosity and for future reference as I don't think this has any bearing on the wired ethernet operations).
Second, there is an option for "linking" the IP and MAC address (apparently for each device - not sure). This option is disabled by default but is claimed to provide more security. What's the best choice for this?
Also curious whether there is any benefit in adjusting the subnet masks - for either security or performance?
Anything else that should be "secured"?
Thanks!
The RF remotes still have the "window" on the end of the remote, because they are still IR capable. Go into the settings/Remote menu on both Roku players and see if they show more than one remote linked to the Roku. If so, you can remove one from each, if you can be sure you're not removing the same remote from both. I can't say how they are labeled in your player to tell them apart.
An IR remote is going to control them both, even the 4K+, because both are IR capable. Whichever Roku you want to use for RF, just cover the IR window on the Roku to block the signal. Black electricians tape works well, but anything that blocks the IR signal works fine. I have a piece of paper blocking the IR window on a TV that I use as a PC monitor, because it reacts to the remote I use on another TV in the same room.
There's no issue using the same SSID on both radios. I use a different one on each band myself so I can be certain which one I'm connecting to, as I favor the 5GHz radio for its higher speeds.
By "link" the MAC and IP address, I believe you are referring to ensuring the device always gets the same IP address. This is referred to as an IP Reservation. Some routers have it enabled to lock a MAC address to the same IP address, while others require you to manually create a reservation for each MAC address you want to keep the same address. I believe the TP-Link is the latter, but can't say for certain. For some devices it's preferable to retain the same IP address, but for most uses it's not necessary. I like it on my media players because my DLNA server assigned a profile to each device according to its capabilities, and if the IP address is always changing it might not get the profile I desire. It also clogs up my DLNA server device list with the same device listed multiple times because the IP address changes. 🙂
Oh, you asked about subnet masks. Don't touch that unless you really understand what you're doing. The netmask of 255.255.255.0 provides 254 distinct IP addresses on your network without requiring special routing rules. Altering that netmask changes the number of addresses available, and if you don't understand what you're doing it can really mess things up. You should be just fine with the default number.
atc98092:
Re the Roku remotes:
I think that I shaded the Rokus enough to block the IR (hard to tell). If I succeeded, then apparently even the Express's basic remote is using RF - cause the Rokus still respond to it.
As for the remotes "linked" to the Rokus, I didn't find any listed - on either Roku. (Perhaps I overlooked some settings screen, but it wasn't obvious). I did see the IR/CEC selection screen on each Roku; IR was selected on both Rokus. (Apparently, there is no option for RF (wireless)). I also didn't see any indication of a paired remote in either case. (Not sure there is any such indication anyway).
Just an FYI, a lot of the vinyl electrician's tape isn't all that opaque - so it may require two or more layers to block an intense IR light. Gaffers tape might be more opaque, although it has other disadvantages. When I've needed to block IR remotes (such as for dual Spectrum cable TV boxes), I found that "flaps" of something like a plastic card or cardboard was adequate to block the IR, and the "flap" was easy to prop open when I intended to access the shaded device. Unfortunately, that method didn't block the Roku remotes. :-{
Re the Router Security settings:
If I was using the Wi-Fi mode, I'd likely use separate SSIDs for each network (frequency) - although I might be lazy and use the same PIN for each. Interestingly, something is producing a hidden Wi-Fi network; if it comes from the Router then I'd guess it is for the "other" frequency - apparently when the Router uses the same SSID for both frequencies, it auto-selects the optimum frequency for the device, so probably both networks are present but only one is labeled. <Just speculation>.
Unfortunately I can't recall the wording of the option for linking IP and MAC, but it was something about reducing the ability to spoof (the IP, I think). Not something that I'm familiar with.
About the subnet masks, I know only enough to be "dangerous" (like with most aspects of networking). But I was wondering if there would be any benefit in reducing the range of subnet addresses to only the six that I will be using at this point - that is, mask of 255.255.255.248. (Thought it might have some benefit for either performance or security). If I recall correctly, the Router's current settings were 255.255.0.0 - and I doubt I'd ever need 65K+ subnet addresses. 😉
Anyway, mainly interested in making sure that I do everything reasonable to impede hackers.
JKasten wrote:atc98092:
Re the Roku remotes:
I think that I shaded the Rokus enough to block the IR (hard to tell). If I succeeded, then apparently even the Express's basic remote is using RF - cause the Rokus still respond to it.
As for the remotes "linked" to the Rokus, I didn't find any listed - on either Roku. (Perhaps I overlooked some settings screen, but it wasn't obvious). I did see the IR/CEC selection screen on each Roku; IR was selected on both Rokus. (Apparently, there is no option for RF (wireless)). I also didn't see any indication of a paired remote in either case. (Not sure there is any such indication anyway).
Re the Router Security settings:
If I was using the Wi-Fi mode, I'd likely use separate SSIDs for each network (frequency) - although I might be lazy and use the same PIN for each. Interestingly, something is producing a hidden Wi-Fi network; if it comes from the Router then I'd guess it is for the "other" frequency - apparently when the Router uses the same SSID for both frequencies, it auto-selects the optimum frequency for the device, so probably both networks are present but only one is labeled. <Just speculation>.
Unfortunately I can't recall the wording of the option for linking IP and MAC, but it was something about reducing the ability to spoof (the IP, I think). Not something that I'm familiar with.
About the subnet masks, I know only enough to be "dangerous" (like with most aspects of networking). But I was wondering if there would be any benefit in reducing the range of subnet addresses to only the six that I will be using at this point - that is, mask of 255.255.255.248. (Thought it might have some benefit for either performance or security). If I recall correctly, the Router's current settings were 255.255.0.0 - and I doubt I'd ever need 65K+ subnet addresses. 😉
Anyway, mainly interested in making sure that I do everything reasonable to impede hackers.
When you go into Settings/Remotes & Devices, it should show any RF remote linked to that player. It won't show an IR remote, because those are not "linked" to a device.
The IR/CEC selection is solely for choosing how you would use the remote to control another device, such as a TV or AVR. CEC can control either, while under IR they can only control a TV that it has known codes for. That selection does nothing for using your remote on the Roku itself.
The hidden network you're seeing with a WiFi scanner is likely the Roku remote. They do appear that way when I scan my local area. They normally will be on the same channel as your WiFi network, since the radio can only select a single channel at the time. But if you're using an Ethernet connection, I don't exactly know how it selects a channel to use.
Since I have multiple access points in my home, I don't leave any of my radios on Auto-select for the channel (frequency) they use. I prefer to choose them myself based on what I scan in the area. Even though the homes around me are not tightly packed together, I can still see well over two dozen nearby APs.
I would change your subnet mask to 255.255.255.0. It's nonsense to use your setting in a home environment. For a large medical center that I set up and managed their network, I used 255.255.254.0, simply because I wanted some headroom for all the connected devices used in the building. That doubled the number of available IP addresses, and I still used less than half of them. I don't think reducing your network addresses would be much of an impediment to a hacker. They know ways around things like that. But in reality your home network simply isn't a high value target, so using a high level of encryption on your WiFi (at least WPA-2 Personal) with a strong passcode will discourage any casual neighbor that wants to use your Internet connection.
atc98092:
With all the flooding going on around the area today, I haven't had much time to fuss with the Rokus, but perhaps a few things can be narrowed down meantime.
Just to clarify how things are supposed to work with the Roku remotes, do I have correct understanding of the following:
- The basic remote (Express) is IR-only.
- The audio remote (Express 4K+) is RF (but is it also IR)?
- There should be a list of (RF) linked remotes in each Roku. (Does "linked" equate to "paired"?)
-- I assume the Express will have no such list (because no remote has been paired with it).
-- I also assume that there should be no more than one remote listed in the Express 4K+'s list (because I have only one audio remote (that uses RF).
- If the basic remote included with the Express is IR-only, and not "paired", then it would not appear in either Roku's list (even though it controls both of them).
- If the audio remote (included with the Express 4K+) is not in the list, then:
-- it hasn't been paired (properly).
-- is it using IR to control both Rokus - or does it control by RF even though it's not listed, perhaps because it hasn't been paired (properly)?
- Apparently either remote can control the Rokus even when it has not been paired (properly).
Re Router stuff:
The hidden network is present even when the Rokus are not operating. It also is present when the Router is turned off. To my knowledge I have nothing here that would offer a Wi-Fi network although there are some devices using RF comm links (weather stations, outdoor thermometers, etc.). There is also a 4Glte module on a generator. Assuming those things don't produce Wi-Fi networks, I guess the hidden network must be coming from outside - although there aren't any neighbors closer than about 300'. So...???
If tailoring the default subnet masks has no benefit for the home network, then may as well leave them alone.
JKasten wrote:do I have correct understanding of the following:
- The basic remote (Express) is IR-only.
- The audio remote (Express 4K+) is RF (but is it also IR)?
- There should be a list of (RF) linked remotes in each Roku. (Does "linked" equate to "paired"?)
-- I assume the Express will have no such list (because no remote has been paired with it).
-- I also assume that there should be no more than one remote listed in the Express 4K+'s list (because I have only one audio remote (that uses RF).
- If the basic remote included with the Express is IR-only, and not "paired", then it would not appear in either Roku's list (even though it controls both of them).
- If the audio remote (included with the Express 4K+) is not in the list, then:
-- it hasn't been paired (properly).
-- is it using IR to control both Rokus - or does it control by RF even though it's not listed, perhaps because it hasn't been paired (properly)?
- Apparently either remote can control the Rokus even when it has not been paired (properly).
Re Router stuff:
The hidden network is present even when the Rokus are not operating. It also is present when the Router is turned off. To my knowledge I have nothing here that would offer a Wi-Fi network although there are some devices using RF comm links (weather stations, outdoor thermometers, etc.). There is also a 4Glte module on a generator. Assuming those things don't produce Wi-Fi networks, I guess the hidden network must be coming from outside - although there aren't any neighbors closer than about 300'. So...???
If tailoring the default subnet masks has no benefit for the home network, then may as well leave them alone.
Router stuff:
Unless you pull the power, the Roku itself is never "off". So it could still be broadcasting the hidden WiFi signal. Things like weather stations (I have one) outdoor thermometers (I have more than one) operate on completely different frequencies normally, so should not appear as a WiFi signal. The 4G module on the generator is using cellular, so again different frequencies.
I can't say exactly how far away I am receiving signals from other access points, but even filtering out the "weak" signals I'm still seeing about 35 access points sitting here in my chair. About 2/3 of them are labeled "hidden" but that doesn't mean they are all RF remotes from different devices. On your router you have the option to turn off SSID broadcasting, and that would make your network "hidden" as well. My neighbor across the street (I know his SSID) only shows about 21% signal quality, so it wouldn't be a very good connection, and that's maybe 100-150' away. The first access point that isn't one of mine shows a quality of 42%, compared to mine showing about 80%.
atc98092 wrote:
Every version of Roku Express (no + or 4K added to the name) only comes with the basic IR remote
There are Express 4K and Express 4K+ models. Only the + version comes with the Voice remote.
Was I correct in thinking that the "+" indicates the voice-capable remote (and the absence of the + indicates the basic (IR) remote)? (That's what I based my original selection of Express and Express 4K+ on - to get different remotes).
- The RF remotes are also capable of IR control, but my understanding is when it is paired with a Roku player the IR codes are disabled, and IR will only control a TV power/volume.
- Yes, linked and paired mean the same thing. Yes, any RF remote paired with a player should be shown in the Settings/Remotes section.
- Yes, the IR remote will not appear in the list of paired remotes, and will control both Rokus at the same time.
- Yes, if the RF remote hasn't been paired with a Roku, it's possible it is still using IR to control the player, and the IR would control both devices at the same time.
OK, I'm getting more confused when trying to account for the reason(s) for the behaviors that I'm seeing, but it appears that my voice remote is not paired with either Roku (that is, it operates both Rokus yet I don't see it listed anywhere in the Roku properties) - even though it went through the pairing process during the activation of the Express 4K+).
At this point, if might help to understand which component(s) (Roku and/or remote) store the pairing status information, and what events (such as Roku power-off, or remote battery removal) can "erase" the pairing status. It's also unclear how to successfully "re-pair" the remote with a Roku when necessary.
In any case, even when things are working properly, it sounds like the basic (IR-only) remote would be sort of useless because it would control both Rokus simultaneously (unless the IR reception can be blocked on one Roku, or unless the Roku that's paired with the RF remote will then respond only to RF commands - that would be nice).
The aspect of the voice remote controlling the TV via IR brings up an interesting question: Where is the IR transmitter "window" on the voice remote? (I see absolutely nothing on its housing that looks like an IR LED or "window"... and the only Visible LED openings that I see are on top of the remote, to the left of the power button - where they don't "point at" the TV when the remote is held normally. Curious!
Router stuff:
Unless you pull the power, the Roku itself is never "off". So it could still be broadcasting the hidden WiFi signal. Things like weather stations (I have one) outdoor thermometers (I have more than one) operate on completely different frequencies normally, so should not appear as a WiFi signal. The 4G module on the generator is using cellular, so again different frequencies.
Yeah, I meant that the Rokus were de-powered when I said they were "off". And the hidden network shows up even when the Router is de-powered.... and the only non-Roku remotes that I have are IR types. So, apparently there is nothing on-premises (that I know of) which accounts for the hidden network. Interesting...
I can't say exactly how far away I am receiving signals from other access points, but even filtering out the "weak" signals I'm still seeing about 35 access points sitting here in my chair. About 2/3 of them are labeled "hidden" but that doesn't mean they are all RF remotes from different devices. On your router you have the option to turn off SSID broadcasting, and that would make your network "hidden" as well. My neighbor across the street (I know his SSID) only shows about 21% signal quality, so it wouldn't be a very good connection, and that's maybe 100-150' away. The first access point that isn't one of mine shows a quality of 42%, compared to mine showing about 80%.
Yeah, I noticed the Router option to "Hide" - although I didn't understand the significance of that option prior to this discussion. In my case, the Router's network appears in the Laptop's scan when the Router's Wi-Fi is active or also when the Router is connected to the laptop via ethernet while the Router's Wi-Fi is disabled. (This is a bit of a surprise because I expected that only available Wi-Fi networks would be "found" by the Wi-Fi scan - so either the scan detects ethernet networks too, or else the Router's Wi-Fi actually is not turning off when disabled). Beyond the Router's network and that hidden network, no other networks are found by the laptop's scan. (I haven't tried scanning for Wi-Fi from my cellphone). As far as network signal strength, I haven't found that info anywhere.
It does appear that both of your Roku remotes are working in IR mode. Why the one doesn't show paired, I have no idea. But you should be able to re-pair the Voice remote using the pairing function in the Remote settings. Once that is done, I believe the IR control of the Roku will cease for that remote. I know I have multiple Roku players that are within the same area and there is no interaction between any remote and a Roku other than the one it's paired with.
Why you're still seeing a hidden network with your Rokus completely powered off, I can't explain. The WiFi scanner I use does report the MAC address of the hidden network, so that might be able to tell you the brand of device that is broadcasting. I suppose it might be the remote itself, since they are always powered on unless the batteries are removed.
Based on the Wiki information, the Express 4K 3940 and the 4K+ 3941 are identical except for the included remote. Looking at older devices, the + in general does indicate the RF remote being included instead of the IR remote. The one exception is any version of Roku Stick, as they don't support IR at all so they all come with an RF remote. But there's still an exception or two there, so it doesn't appear hard and fast that a + model will come with an RF remote.
I've never owned a basic Express, so I have no idea if they even support adding an RF remote. The way to tell would be looking at the Remote settings menu for a pairing function. If it's there, then you should be able to buy a Voice Remote for it as well.
atc98092 wrote:It does appear that both of your Roku remotes are working in IR mode.
If the basic remote works only in IR mode, then no question about that one. Otherwise - and in the case of the voice remote - how can one tell which mode is in use? If the voice remote is capable of operating via both IR and RF at the same time - especially when it's not paired - then the 4K+ could be responding to IR only, RF only, or even to both. If the Express doesn't respond to RF, then the voice remote must be sending at least IR - but I guess the 4K+ could be responding to either IR or RF from the voice remote (if it is sending both). Confusing!
Why the one doesn't show paired, I have no idea. But you should be able to re-pair the Voice remote using the pairing function in the Remote settings. Once that is done, I believe the IR control of the Roku will cease for that remote.
My guess is that the 4K+ - or the voice remote - lost its pairing for some reason. Possibly because I had de-powered them when swapping things for testing. However, I did attempt to re-pair them - but the behavior didn't change after that (and there was no listed remote) so it makes me wonder if the re-pairing "took". Certainly, if the voice remote can be made to send only RF, and the 4K+ can be made to receive only RF by whatever means, then the dual-control problem should be solved.
I know I have multiple Roku players that are within the same area and there is no interaction between any remote and a Roku other than the one it's paired with.
Just checking: Are there more than two types of Roku remotes - especially ones that can be paired with the Rokus? If so, then perhaps the "preferred" solution would be to use only pair-able Rokus and remotes. (Of course, this assumes that pairing ensures an exclusive one-to-one connection between each Roku and its remote).
Ideally, I'd prefer to use only IR remotes rather than RF remotes - IF it is possible to pair remotes when using IR mode.
Router and Networks:
Why you're still seeing a hidden network with your Rokus completely powered off, I can't explain.
My only ideas are that it's a "foreign" network... or emanating from some device or system that I haven't accounted for. The only reason this may be an issue is if it is the cause of some sporadic interference with my scanning radios and/or the cause of some random-ish un-commanded operations of some remote-control lighting systems here. Main thing is that it's existence is unexpected/unexplained.
Based on the Wiki information, the Express 4K 3940 and the 4K+ 3941 are identical except for the included remote. Looking at older devices, the + in general does indicate the RF remote being included instead of the IR remote. The one exception is any version of Roku Stick, as they don't support IR at all so they all come with an RF remote. But there's still an exception or two there, so it doesn't appear hard and fast that a + model will come with an RF remote.
I wonder if the "+" denotes some feature other than the voice remote - that just happens to be included primarily in the voice remote sets. If so, then I have no idea what it designates.
I've never owned a basic Express, so I have no idea if they even support adding an RF remote. The way to tell would be looking at the Remote settings menu for a pairing function. If it's there, then you should be able to buy a Voice Remote for it as well.
There were two main reasons why I bought one Express and one Express 4K+ for my initial try-out of Roku: First was to get two different remotes (in hopes of avoiding interactions - because I had no idea of the pairing aspect at that time), and second, I anticipate using the less expensive Expresses with my "secondary" small-screen TV sets - which are 1080p, so using 4K for those would be "overkill". If a pairable - and economical - remote is available for the Express (or if there is better way to resolve this dual-control **bleep**), then I may as well stick with the plan and get another set of one Express and one Express 4K+; otherwise, my second round of Rokus probably should be two Express 4K+'s instead.
By the way, is there an Express+? (Seems like I recall seeing that somewhere - perhaps in the Roku compatibility article - or not). If that exists, then it would not only suggest that the Express can be paired with a voice remote, but also it probably would be a better choice for my circumstances.
Wow! I never would have thought that the remotes would be such a big hairy deal for this. Too bad because most everything else about the Rokus seemed to go very smoothly.
AvsGunnar offers some good advice. Two voice remotes that are paired to different devices will only control the device it's paired to. If you re-pair the voice remote you have to the Express 4K+, that will turn off the IR control of the remote and would no longer control the Express. It won't control both devices at the same time.
There are several versions of the Voice remote, but there's only two styles of remotes: RF and IR. Roku only had one player that supported Bluetooth remotes, and that was more than 10 years ago.
AvsGunnar wrote:
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Basically, if you purchase another Voice Remote for use with your 3960, that should resolve your issue with the IR conflicts. (each Voice Remote will pair to their respective device and stop the conflict).
I concur - assuming the Express will support the voice remote. Too bad that IR remotes can't pair - but see my update below...
However, if you are still in the return window for the Express 3960, then I would return it and purchase another Express 4k+ 3941 which will come with a Voice Remote. The Voice Remote options start at $20 so just seems to make more sense to purchase a device that comes with it.
Yeah, I was seeing the voice remotes for $20- and the 4K+ for $30- (although locally, those are $40-) - so it would make sense to go with the 4K+ (and I could just keep the Express as a "backup"). I did notice some indications that the voice remotes are prone to failure; any idea of the veracity of that?
edited to add... By the way, which TP Link router did you end up going with?
The only TP-Link router available locally was the AC1900 (that I got). Closest alternatives were a (less expensive) Linksys, and a (much more expensive) Netgear, although I don't recall the models. They also have some Netgear NightHawk AX's - but those were at least twice the price of the Netgear AC.
Situation Update:
The plot sickens... Last evening, I wanted to test the planned layout for upstairs, so I discombobulated the test setup I had downstairs and moved the components upstairs and hooked them up via a (temporary) ethernet cable run up the stairway from the router (with the future wall jacks in the line). The results were worrisome (in that they were unexpected and unexplained), yet hopeful (in that everything appeared to work as it is supposed to work). The unexpected/unexplained aspect is that, although I did nothing with the pairing, the voice remote now controlled only the 4K+, and unfortunately the IR remote still controlled both Rokus, despite trying to shade the 4K+'s IR port. After several trials and errors, I put the 4K+ inside a nearly-closed cardboard box. Then both remotes controlled only their respective Rokus. Yay! Wanting to explore the Roku channel offerings, I was reluctant about mucking around further, so I didn't go ahead and try to pair the voice remote with the Express - so I don't know whether that combo will play together.
I did, however, try using the voice (RF) remote downstairs - to see whether it could control the 4K+ (that was still upstairs. I connected the upstairs 4K+ to one of the downstairs TV's via a wireless HDMI extender). This worked fine, so it opens up an interesting alternative: Instead of using four Rokus, each connected exclusively to one TV, it is possible to use just two Roku's (located downstairs, near the Router) and use an HDMI switch on each Roku to route their HDMI outputs to either an upstairs or a downstairs TV (because I can only use either the upstairs TVs or the downstairs TVs at any given time). This arrangement offers the benefit of reducing the equipment needed (and the power consumed by it)... but raises disadvantages due to needing to run two HDMI cables upstairs instead of just one ethernet cable, and the inconvenience of ensuring that the HDMI switches get set as needed for the desired viewing location, and that the remotes are in that location. (HDMI splitters could be used instead of switches, but the splitters require power, where the switches do not... and two extra voice remotes could be used (assuming that two voice remotes can be paired with each Roku) - but economically I might as well just buy two more Rokus with their own voice remotes than to buy the two extra voice remotes). So, it's an interesting decision - whether to opt for saving some money and power versus avoiding inconvenience. (I suppose that going the more inconvenient HDMI route would have the side-benefit of giving my brain and/or muscles some exercise due to having to remember to set the switches and shlepp the remotes... 😉
Anyway, thanks guys for all your help with this. It's looking hopeful - so long as the remotes work out OK. Now on to find the TV channels that I want on Roku... I hope that I can find the ones that I used to watch (before Spectrum's "down-grade"/price hike), or at least equivalent programming.
atc98092 wrote:AvsGunnar offers some good advice. Two voice remotes that are paired to different devices will only control the device it's paired to. If you re-pair the voice remote you have to the Express 4K+, that will turn off the IR control of the remote and would no longer control the Express. It won't control both devices at the same time.
There are several versions of the Voice remote, but there's only two styles of remotes: RF and IR. Roku only had one player that supported Bluetooth remotes, and that was more than 10 years ago.
I kind of expected (hoped?) that pairing would cause a remote to work exclusively with one Roku - but initial indications seemed otherwise. Interestingly, I discovered that the Roku-paired and TV-linked voice remote tended to control both TVs (via IR), even though the TVs are different brands. Weird - but not necessarily bad in the case of power-on/off... but there could be times when I'd want to adjust the volume on only one TV, not both.
The main thing that I was wondering about types of remotes is whether there are any RF remotes that are not voice remotes. (Sounds like there are not).
(If you haven't already seen my Update reply about the remotes situation, then you may be interested in what's reported there... couldn't figure how to link that reply here, though).
