Playback Issues - Audio/Video & Power

Help with audio & video playback issues, TV display type recognition & compatibility, HDCP messages, troubleshooting playback errors, advertisements, and resolving power issues.
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dddddsssssss
Level 8

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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I have to agree. I am getting a firestick 4k. I have the older version and it sends 5.1 perfectly to my Panasonic SA-XR57. No problems. My Roku refuses to do so and would at least switch the inputs automatically on my receiver.

I understand the 4k firestick will do this also so no need for Roku. I cannot fathom how they expect people to setup 5.1 systems to watch Amazon and Netflix with no 5.1.

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SmilingBob
Level 9

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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..." my Panasonic SA-XR57."

How cool is that, I am still using an XR55 in our bedroom system.  It is my second one, the first I purchased in 2005, sold it when we moved and couldn't ever find anything comparable.  So, I promptly bought a brand new unit / old stock off Ebay a few years ago.  Something about these old Pannies that sounds so good - I've always been shocked Panasonic didn't do better with them with all the positive reviews and feedback, back in the day.  Digital amps seemed to get relegated to HTIAB systems, subwoofers and miscellaneous budget junk audio.  Shame, really.

Back to the Roku discussion - I've had mixed success getting my Roku to play nice with 5.1 audio.  Direct into the receive gives no sound if DD+ content (Netflix, Prime Video, etc.).  Into TV and out to receiver will pass 5.1 DD AC3 only.  Which is fine - that is all the Pannie supports anyways and it is optical only.  I suspect there is something about the TV that recognizes the AC3 substream attached to the DD+ audio that my old receiver does not.  PITA but it works for now.

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RC77
Level 8

RE> DOLBY ATMOS - DOLBY VISION

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Let me blow your mind. ROKU does pass DD 5.1 and here's how you can test it for yourself. Point being they can do it, but they only do it for themselves on the ROKU CHANNEL only. Sample several movies and like magic your INDICATOR light will pop on. Imagine that !  In my opinion for "ALL" the other Channels (apps) ROKU has this feature blocked. My best guess is they don't want to pay DOLBY any LICENSING FEES!  How cheap can they be???   If they did pass through DD 5.1 and DTS-X their sales would skyrocket, and the GOOD NEWS would get out quickly.

Someone in their conference room should be forced to resign because this is not doing their business model any good, not to mention their new LED TV sales! Unfortunately I don't sign their checks so I am simply a nobody.

 

If you truly , I mean truly desire a completely new and wonderful experience like you never had before, try this. Simply go to YOUTUBE and search the following. Put all the pieces together and you'll never regret it.

Start off with the NVIDIA SHIELD TV. Shield passes all Dolby Digital including DOLBY ATMOS, DOLBY VISION, DTS - X perfectly. Then search out the XENON  BUILD (DIGGZZ), then for $3.00 a month you subscribe to REAL-DEBRID. Put them all together and your all set for years and years of every movie , High Defination from 720 - 4K. All in DD and ATMOS.  Sometimes you can stream a movie 2 weeks before it's release date. Imagine that. All for $3.00 bucks a month.  If you may doubt any of this, go look it up and see for yourself. I been doing this for 2 years now, and I have had next to no issues.

 

The XENON Build creators are constantly updating the servers and the quality is impeccable! Plus your KODI Platform is updated automatically. I am on KODI 18.8 LEIA. Works perfect.  Sorry to say but it blows the FIRESTICK AWAY. And all other STICKS!

 

There is so much available it's not possible to ever become bored. You'll have the ENTIRE PLANET available to you with the push of a button.

Check it out on YOUTUBE and see for yourself!  NVIDIA SHIELD TV, XENON BUILD by DIGGZZ, and REAL-DEBRID...

 

Have fun...

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StreamerUser
Level 20

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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@SmilingBob wrote:

..." my Panasonic SA-XR57."

How cool is that, I am still using an XR55 in our bedroom system.  It is my second one, the first I purchased in 2005, sold it when we moved and couldn't ever find anything comparable.  So, I promptly bought a brand new unit / old stock off Ebay a few years ago.  Something about these old Pannies that sounds so good - I've always been shocked Panasonic didn't do better with them with all the positive reviews and feedback, back in the day.  Digital amps seemed to get relegated to HTIAB systems, subwoofers and miscellaneous budget junk audio.  Shame, really.

Back to the Roku discussion - I've had mixed success getting my Roku to play nice with 5.1 audio.  Direct into the receive gives no sound if DD+ content (Netflix, Prime Video, etc.).  Into TV and out to receiver will pass 5.1 DD AC3 only.  Which is fine - that is all the Pannie supports anyways and it is optical only.  I suspect there is something about the TV that recognizes the AC3 substream attached to the DD+ audio that my old receiver does not.  PITA but it works for now.


TL;DR:  NetFlix=EAC3, ROKU=PASSTHROUGH AVR=AC3, TV=EAC3 (converts to AC3 if necessary)

Roku+NetFlix+AVR=No sound (configure Roku for PCM stereo to get sound, some issue with "auto detect" in this configuration for your setup)

Roku+NetFlix+TV+AVR=5.1 sound (configure Roku for HDMI=auto detect, TV is transcoding EAC3-->AC3)

----------------------------

NetFlix (and most streaming services) uses EAC3 (DD+).

EAC3 (DD+) is not directly backwards compatible with AC3 (DD) - However, all devices with a DD+ decoding license are required to transcode to DD for output if necessary (this however can be implemented very differently across manufacturers/models, depending).

When you connect the Roku directly to your Panasonic AVR that only supports AC3 (DD), there will be no sound if you have DD or DD+ forced/incorrectly detected.  Even if you manually configure the Roku output to DD or DD+, you will hear nothing (with most services that use DD+), since the Roku wont transcode the EAC3 to AC3 (aside from the 4640 and the 4800, configured to do so).

When you connect your Roku to your TV, your TV is transcoding (there is no "AC3 substream" within an EAC3 stream) the EAC3 to AC3 (more recent model year TVs do this, as an artifact of having a Dolby DD+ decoding license with the mandatory DD conversion) for output to ARC/optical - which your AVR recognizes, and thus DD 5.1 output.

To emphasize, most Roku models don't have Dolby decoding (and thus DD transcode) capabilities (just passthrough), so if you want DD output for all apps/services, you'll need either the 4640 or the 4800 (e.g., if you want to connect it directly to your AVR with limited AC3 support and get 5.1 output).

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lesmikesell
Level 13

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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@SmilingBob wrote:

Back to the Roku discussion - I've had mixed success getting my Roku to play nice with 5.1 audio.  Direct into the receive gives no sound if DD+ content (Netflix, Prime Video, etc.).  Into TV and out to receiver will pass 5.1 DD AC3 only.  Which is fine - that is all the Pannie supports anyways and it is optical only.  I suspect there is something about the TV that recognizes the AC3 substream attached to the DD+ audio that my old receiver does not.  PITA but it works for now.


The roku ultra is the only one that even claims to decode DD+ and it is apparently broken per this discussion.   https://community.roku.com/t5/Roku-Device-Features-Settings-Updates/How-to-enable-DD-to-DD-transocdi... Other than the ultra they probably are not paying to license DD+ decoding.

But your TV is doing it correctly.  Optical can only pass DD 5.1, DTS, or 2 channel PCM, so the TV has to convert.     ARC has similar bandwidth but since it has a mechanism to pass capabilities, if the receiver can handle DD+ it can pass it for Atmos.

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StreamerUser
Level 20

Re: RE> DOLBY ATMOS - DOLBY VISION

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@RC77 wrote:

Let me blow your mind. ROKU does pass DD 5.1 and here's how you can test it for yourself. Point being they can do it, but they only do it for themselves on the ROKU CHANNEL only. Sample several movies and like magic your INDICATOR light will pop on. Imagine that !  In my opinion for "ALL" the other Channels (apps) ROKU has this feature blocked. My best guess is they don't want to pay DOLBY any LICENSING FEES!  How cheap can they be???   If they did pass through DD 5.1 and DTS-X their sales would skyrocket, and the GOOD NEWS would get out quickly.

Someone in their conference room should be forced to resign because this is not doing their business model any good, not to mention their new LED TV sales! Unfortunately I don't sign their checks so I am simply a nobody.

 

If you truly , I mean truly desire a completely new and wonderful experience like you never had before, try this. Simply go to YOUTUBE and search the following. Put all the pieces together and you'll never regret it.

Start off with the NVIDIA SHIELD TV. Shield passes all Dolby Digital including DOLBY ATMOS, DOLBY VISION, DTS - X perfectly. Then search out the XENON  BUILD (DIGGZZ), then for $3.00 a month you subscribe to REAL-DEBRID. Put them all together and your all set for years and years of every movie , High Defination from 720 - 4K. All in DD and ATMOS.  Sometimes you can stream a movie 2 weeks before it's release date. Imagine that. All for $3.00 bucks a month.  If you may doubt any of this, go look it up and see for yourself. I been doing this for 2 years now, and I have had next to no issues.

 

The XENON Build creators are constantly updating the servers and the quality is impeccable! Plus your KODI Platform is updated automatically. I am on KODI 18.8 LEIA. Works perfect.  Sorry to say but it blows the FIRESTICK AWAY. And all other STICKS!

 

There is so much available it's not possible to ever become bored. You'll have the ENTIRE PLANET available to you with the push of a button.

Check it out on YOUTUBE and see for yourself!  NVIDIA SHIELD TV, XENON BUILD by DIGGZZ, and REAL-DEBRID...

 

Have fun...


All Roku models support AC3/EAC3 passthrough - however, most streaming services/apps are using EAC3 (The Roku Channel being an exception here, it uses AC3) - which is why (non-transcoding) Roku devices connected to an AC3 device experience DD 5.1 on The Roku Channel (and not much elsewhere, because they are using EAC3).

Roku isnt "blocking" DD+ or DD output - as you noted, most models don't have Dolby decoding capabilities (likely due to licensing, again as you noted) aside from the 4640 and the 4800 (which do have Dolby decoding licenses, and the mandatory ability to transcode DD+ to DD).

You can make all the "business wisdom" arguments regarding Roku not licensing Dolby decoding for all models that you want, however, clearly, their lack of Dolby decoding has not hurt their "bottom line" at all.

The Roku TV vendors can/do make their own separate licensing deals with Dolby for Vision/Atmos/decoding/etc, and those products have such capabilities when such separate Dolby licensing deals are made.

And to be very clear again, all Roku models pass DD 5.1, but only 2 Roku models decode/transcode DD+ to DD (4640/4800).

 

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William77
Level 9

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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I feel very fortunate.  I just bought the most recent version of Roku this September.  Both Netflix and Amazon convert to 7.1 with no problem (DD+).  I also have CBS All Access and other than live programming and a few shows like Colbert I only have to go into the Audio menu and bounce from stereo over to DD+ and then those also transmit in 7.1.  My Roku is HDMI into my Denon AVR X2400H receiver (circa 2017).  So reading these comments make me feel fortunate.  My monitor is a 2012 Panasonic plasma, but not relevant since the connection goes through the receiver first.  It seems more modern equipment handles the audio just fine.  Best of luck!

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SmilingBob
Level 9

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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"When you connect your Roku to your TV, your TV is transcoding (there is no "AC3 substream" within an EAC3 stream) the EAC3 to AC3 (more recent model year TVs do this, as an artifact of having a Dolby DD+ decoding license with the mandatory DD conversion) for output to ARC/optical - which your AVR recognizes, and thus DD 5.1 output."

I don't know, it is all very confusing to those of us with these issues.  The Wikipedia states "All DD+ streams must contain at least one independent substream or legacy substream, which contains the first (or only) 5.1 channels of the primary audio program. Additional independent substreams may be used for secondary audio programs such as foreign language soundtracks, commentary, or descriptions/voiceovers for the visually impaired. Dependent substreams may be provided for programs that have additional soundstage channels beyond 5.1."  And, "Dolby Digital Plus bitstreams are not directly backward compatible with legacy Dolby Digital decoders. However, Dolby Digital Plus is a functional superset of Dolby Digital, and decoders include a mandatory component that directly converts (without decoding and re-encoding) the Dolby Digital Plus bitstream to a Dolby Digital bitstream (operating at 640 kbit/s) for carriage via legacy S/PDIF connections (including S/PDIF over HDMI) to external decoders (e.g. AVRs, etc.). All Dolby Digital Plus decoders can decode Dolby Digital bitstreams."

Ofcourse, this is Wikipedia, but I have confirmed the above information through third party tech blog discussions and cross referencing research.  But I think we are basically saying the same thing, although I would be shocked if my Samsung TV was directly "transcoding" the EAC3 to AC3 - Samsung TVs quit support (passthrough or otherwise) of DTS in 2018, so them spending money to transcode a legacy audio stream via obsolete connection (spdif) would be a stretch.  My 2014 Samsung TV (No DD+ decoder) passes only PCM stereo via optical, my 2018 Samsung (DD+ decoder) passes AC3 from EAC3 source via our Roku across all apps.  Decoding, Transcoding, Direct Conversion - maybe we are arguing semantics here, but technically transcoding takes a good bit of CPU power, as evidenced when PLEX has to transcode DTS to AC3 (since the TV doesn't pass/support it). This leads me back to my hypothesis that there is a legacy AC3 stream that is getting handed off to the AVR from the built in TV DD+ decoder.  Interesting discussion, especially since so many still have issues.

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StreamerUser
Level 20

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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@SmilingBob wrote:

"When you connect your Roku to your TV, your TV is transcoding (there is no "AC3 substream" within an EAC3 stream) the EAC3 to AC3 (more recent model year TVs do this, as an artifact of having a Dolby DD+ decoding license with the mandatory DD conversion) for output to ARC/optical - which your AVR recognizes, and thus DD 5.1 output."

I don't know, it is all very confusing to those of us with these issues.  The Wikipedia states "All DD+ streams must contain at least one independent substream or legacy substream, which contains the first (or only) 5.1 channels of the primary audio program. Additional independent substreams may be used for secondary audio programs such as foreign language soundtracks, commentary, or descriptions/voiceovers for the visually impaired. Dependent substreams may be provided for programs that have additional soundstage channels beyond 5.1."  And, "Dolby Digital Plus bitstreams are not directly backward compatible with legacy Dolby Digital decoders. However, Dolby Digital Plus is a functional superset of Dolby Digital, and decoders include a mandatory component that directly converts (without decoding and re-encoding) the Dolby Digital Plus bitstream to a Dolby Digital bitstream (operating at 640 kbit/s) for carriage via legacy S/PDIF connections (including S/PDIF over HDMI) to external decoders (e.g. AVRs, etc.). All Dolby Digital Plus decoders can decode Dolby Digital bitstreams."

Ofcourse, this is Wikipedia, but I have confirmed the above information through third party tech blog discussions and cross referencing research.  But I think we are basically saying the same thing, although I would be shocked if my Samsung TV was directly "transcoding" the EAC3 to AC3 - Samsung TVs quit support (passthrough or otherwise) of DTS in 2018, so them spending money to transcode a legacy audio stream via obsolete connection (spdif) would be a stretch.  Decoding, Transcoding, maybe we are arguing semantics here.  My 2014 Samsung TV passes only PCM stereo via optical, my 2018 Samsung passes AC3 from EAC3 source via our Roku across all apps.  Interesting discussion, especially since so many still have issues.


That's all accurate information by and large, but yes, your (unknown model) 2018 Samsung TV (with its DD+ decoder and its mandatory DD transcoding) is in fact transcoding DD+ to DD for ARC/optical output.  The money was "already spent" when they obtained the DD+ decoding license (which has mandatory DD transcoding) when they manufactured/released the TV.

Dolby's mandatory DD transcoding requirement for DD+ decoders doesn't stipulate all the different ways the DD transcoding must operate, only that it exist.

Therefore. not all DD+ decoding/transcode/passthrough is equal, especially with TVs (as you've discovered with your different model years TVs):  some only decode/transcode DD+ from internal apps (and not from HDMI), some will do it for ARC, but not for optical, or vice versa, etc.  Sometimes these are hardware limitations, sometimes software (firmware updates/configuration changes can change/enable certain decoding/transcoding/passthrough behavior).  Generally speaking, the older the limitation, the more limited the DD transcoding is.

Most TV/AVR equipment from 2012 (official ATSC support) onwards contains (some form/revision of) DD+ decoding (with its license-mandated DD transcoding) - including your 2018 TV, which has an implementation that allows for EAC3->AC3 transcoding from HMDI->Optical (pretty typical for more recent model year TVs).

 

 

 

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vodil
Level 9

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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I have a ROKU Ultra plugged into my Atmos-enabled AVR, but Netflix never shows "Atmos" for the sound although others (e.g.the ROKU) channel do.  Do you get Atmost from Netflix?

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