Solving playback issues

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jtc25
Reel Rookie

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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In reading through the many postings under this topic, I've come to two conclusions. First, those of us who are experiencing the problem are connecting video and audio from a Roku device to an HDTV (e.g. 1080) via HDMI, and then passing audio via TOSLink to a "legacy" AVR that supports only the original AC-3 Dolby surround format. In my case, it's a Vizio TV fed by a Streaming Stick +, and a Denon receiver. My second conclusion is that this appears to be a Roku problem to solve.

It appears to be a Roku problem because, as many have pointed out, legacy Dolby 5.1 USED to work with our older equipment until the firmware update. It would be quite a coincidence for Netflix and Amazon to have made their audio bitsteams incompatible at exactly the same time as the Roku firmware update, but Roku blames the problem on these services and not the device. We all understand that Roku devices only pass through the audio bitstreams, but there is supposedly a compatibility path with DD+ bitstreams (see below), and apparently, many Roku models were serving up a compatible stream until this capability was turned off. If not a regression in firmware, one is tempted to ask whether turning off this capability was deliberate, perhaps demanded or orchestrated by the content providers.

There are many shiploads of perfectly functional legacy surround sound systems owned by Roku customers who don't need or want 8 channels or the other "features" of these new formats. Roku's TannerD offers a sure solution, the only solution according to Roku -- buy a new receiver -- thereby, among other things, needlessly promoting the accumulation of yet more toxic electronic waste. 

So Roku, please either fix this widely reported downgrading of functionality, or explain, truthfully, why it was turned off. Thanks.

Some of you might be interested in what Dolby says about Dolby Digital +, also known as E-AC-3.  This is from a technical document available on Dolby's site:

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The increased channel capacity [of E-AC-3] is obtained by associating the main audio program bitstream with up to eight additional substreams, all of which are multiplexed into one E-AC-3 bitstream. This allows the main audio program to convey the existing 5.1-channel format of AC-3, while the additional channel capacity comes from the dependent bitstreams. This means that a 5.1-channel version and the various conventional downmixes are always available.

The E-AC-3 system provides an effective method to convert an E-AC-3 bitstream to an AC-3 bitstream to ensure compatibility with the large installed base of AC-3 decoders. The conversion process is designed to minimize loss in audio quality while keeping the complexity at a level suitable for low-cost consumer devices.

 

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Jo-20
Binge Watcher

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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The best part is that both my TV and A/V is supposed to support DD+ but they only play stereo for Amazon.  I have found that the RoKu channel comes through with 5.1 Dolby Digital. I have been using my A/V to create it’s own 5.1 surround for Amazon in it’s place.  Thanks for the update with the background tech information.  I hope that RoKu fixes the issue.  

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sgmfish
Streaming Star

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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I personally don't believe Roku has something in its current firmware (9.2) to fix. All the problems I've seen reported here are either misconfiguration by the user (as in my case), or an incompatibility with some other part of the chain (e.g., streaming app, AVR unit), or the Roku was designed to work that way whether the user likes it or not.

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pokuer2000
Channel Surfer

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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Au contraire... I only noticed yesterday, that my Roku ultra 2019 is giving out mostly PCM to my onkyo avr (dd+ and everything). Yes, it is connected directly to avr.

Now i have my old 2018 ultra side by side and with identical settings, same cable, everything - 2018 is giving out usual perfect DD+, 2019 is not whatever i do or try (vol mode off, all possible audio confs, different apps etcetcetc) - it's pcm 2.0. I do have detected truehd etc in audio conf. Still. PCM TWO POINT NOUGHT. I'm kinda baffled and p off.

Old 'working' one is 4640x, new 'bad' one is 4670x

Suggestions?

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sgmfish
Streaming Star

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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@pokuer2000 wrote:

Au contraire..

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I will assume that you have firmware 9.2 on both units. If so, your post makes no sense and is definitively not in conflict with what I said in my post.

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jtc25
Reel Rookie

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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There are those for which 5.1 worked prior to December 2019 and did not after the update; hence, the title of this thread. Turning off volume leveling and resetting devices and the like do not seem to solve the problem for those of us using legacy TOSLink connections with receivers that recognize Dolby Digital but not DD+. When did Netflix and Amazon start using DD+?  If the streams didn't change but the device behavior did, logic says the problem is with the device/firmware. According to some, Amazon's competing device still delivers 5.1 legacy surround.

There is considerable noise under this topic which I don't want to add to. I was simply hoping Roku would be more forthcoming about why a presumably sizable segment of customers with legacy audio equipment seems to have been "disenfranchised" with respect to this feature. 

GIven that the three certainties in life are death, taxes, and obsolescence, resistance may be futile and these questions moot. 

pokuer2000
Channel Surfer

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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Well put jtc.

To be realistic - obviously the bug in 9.2 is roku hw revision dependent.

Silence of Roku? Well, i may theorize that it goes deeper: like roku 'lost' some hw licenses for dd+ so they 'silently phase it out'.

Thing is for me it's kinda important - my AVR processes DD+ (even 2.0) with way better sound than plain PCM 2.0. It gives options like center spread etc. Also many youtube (e.g.) videos use DD+2.0 stream with subcoding, making AVR produce proper 5.1+ sound in Dolby Audio Surround mode (de facto standard).

I only hope Roku silently will fix this. I will keep plugging 4670x is from time to time hoping, waiting...

 

PS. i also hold $ROKU

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jtc25
Reel Rookie

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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If you're talking conspiracy :-), I think it more likely the content providers demanded that the legacy surround format be turned off, so that all media elements, video and audio, are kept within the HDMI world, i.e., encrypted. (TOSLink connections are not encrytped.) Paranoia runs deep in Hollywood. In the real world (the developed world anyway), streaming solutions are mostly affordable for the masses so it would be just a pointless irritant to disable standard AC-3 for streaming, if that turned out to be what happened.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that all recent Roku devices -- mine is a 4k Streaming Stick +, plugged into a standard HDTV -- have the horsepower to extract the AC-3 compatible 5.1 core stream from DD+, do whatever bit-fiddling is needed to reformat the legacy stream, and send it to the requesting device. Dolby's tech document says that in some cases, partial decoding and re-encoding may be needed for this, but anything required should be within the capabilities of low-cost streaming devices (see my original post). However, in researching this problem, I also found other sources that contend the DD+ streams are not actually backwards compatible in the way described by Dolby.

Enough speculation. I don't want to replace/update my receiver. It was expensive, has plenty of 5.1 power, and is still perfectly serviceable except for the pesky compatibility thing. First world problems.

Jo-20
Binge Watcher

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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I am using HDMI high speed cable and both my TV and A/V support DD+.  Both also support HDMI Control and am using HDMI ARC but all I am receiving is stereo for Amazon Prime Video.  So what goes?  

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Heyitsrick
Roku Guru

Re: Update 9.2 broke dolby digital

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@pokuer2000 wrote:

Au contraire... I only noticed yesterday, that my Roku ultra 2019 is giving out mostly PCM to my onkyo avr (dd+ and everything). Yes, it is connected directly to avr.

Now i have my old 2018 ultra side by side and with identical settings, same cable, everything - 2018 is giving out usual perfect DD+, 2019 is not whatever i do or try (vol mode off, all possible audio confs, different apps etcetcetc) - it's pcm 2.0. I do have detected truehd etc in audio conf. Still. PCM TWO POINT NOUGHT. I'm kinda baffled and p off.

Old 'working' one is 4640x, new 'bad' one is 4670x

Suggestions?


I have the same Roku Ultra (2019 - 4670x) as you, and have no problems whatsoever with Dolby Digital Plus on any source that provides it, such as Amazon, Netflix, HBO Go, CBS All-Access, etc.  You've got something amiss somewhere, but it's not a Roku firmware issue.  DD+ is working perfectly on my 2019 Roku Ultra.

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