Network - Wireless & Wired Connections

Help & troubleshooting for network issues, including connecting your device to your home Wi-Fi network, connecting to public networks, troubleshooting wireless issues & ethernet connections, and optimizing streaming performance.
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Level 7

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

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Level 21

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?


@vicalop wrote:

Holy **bleep** this didnt age well.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/eoa03e/psa_100_mbps_is_not_enough_to_direct_play_4k/


And don't forget that Fast Ethernet is rated at 100 Mbps, but real world doesn't see much better that 93-95 Mbps due to network overhead. 

I agree with the person's conclusions, as it's exactly what I see with any of my Roku devices when playing my UHD rips. None will play more than a minute or so before buffering, and usually more like 20-30 seconds. I only have one of the titles they mention in the post, and I hadn't looked yet at the entire list of movies tested. But the only way I can watch my UHD rips is with my Shield, connected via Gigabit. 

Dan
Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Ultra (4670), Ultra (4800), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Nvidia Shield, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
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Level 9

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?


@atc98092 wrote:

@vicalop wrote:

Holy **bleep** this didnt age well.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/eoa03e/psa_100_mbps_is_not_enough_to_direct_play_4k/


And don't forget that Fast Ethernet is rated at 100 Mbps, but real world doesn't see much better that 93-95 Mbps due to network overhead. 

I agree with the person's conclusions, as it's exactly what I see with any of my Roku devices when playing my UHD rips. None will play more than a minute or so before buffering, and usually more like 20-30 seconds. I only have one of the titles they mention in the post, and I hadn't looked yet at the entire list of movies tested. But the only way I can watch my UHD rips is with my Shield, connected via Gigabit. 


I just got the new 2019 Shield and it handles UHD HDR content MUCH better than the older 2017 version.  Pretty flawless playback of uncompressed UHD rips for me.  Kids use the Roku interface in my theater room as it is easier but I always switch to the Shield for bandwidth and Dolby Atmos.

That is the other factor that hasn't been mentioned...uncompressed audio streams.  I have a 7.1.2 Atmos setup and the HDMI ARC with just DD+ on my Roku TV doesn't quite cut it.

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Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

I agree it needs gigabit Ethernet. I like to stream 4K video from my camera through Plex. 10/100 can’t handle it. Nowhere near. My Apple TV 4K plays it no problem. Same issue with UHD rips.

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Level 21

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?


@Fasterquieter wrote:

I agree it needs gigabit Ethernet. I like to stream 4K video from my camera through Plex. 10/100 can’t handle it. Nowhere near. My Apple TV 4K plays it no problem. Same issue with UHD rips.


Yep, I had to switch to the Nvidia Shield for my UHD movies. Wired Gigabit, so no problem at all. Some UHD rips can exceed 150 Mbps, so Fast Ethernet can't come close. There's a few users that say using 802.11ac wireless the Roku can handle it, but it hasn't worked for me. 

Dan
Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Ultra (4670), Ultra (4800), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Nvidia Shield, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
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Level 7

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

Same problem with most smart TV they only have 10/100 mb lan and no gigabit 1000 lan adapters so it’s tough to stream 4K YouTube it has to be downsampled to view at 2k , even most of the best sony and Samsung tv do not have gigabit. It’s really dumb for tv makers since 4K streaming is already out and you need that lan speed ... wifi is just not there yet 

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Level 21

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?


@Ab56 wrote:

Same problem with most smart TV they only have 10/100 mb lan and no gigabit 1000 lan adapters so it’s tough to stream 4K YouTube it has to be downsampled to view at 2k , even most of the best sony and Samsung tv do not have gigabit. It’s really dumb for tv makers since 4K streaming is already out and you need that lan speed ... wifi is just not there yet 


You don't need Gigabit for any online media source. YouTube doesn't come anywhere close to needing Gigabit. Netflix tops out at 16 Mbps for 4K, as does Prime Video. YouTube might be as high as 20 Mbps, but that's it. Gigabit is only necessary for local uncompressed UHD Blu Ray rips. And since all of those will contain lossless audio, which no TV supports, there's really no need for Gigabit on a TV.

Dan
Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Ultra (4670), Ultra (4800), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Nvidia Shield, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
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Level 7

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

That's not the point here atc98092. For streaming local media, you DO need the faster bandwidth if you are playing back high bitrate video.

 

For example, I rip my Blurays at 50mb/sec which should play fine of AC VHT80 WiFi, however, it does not. This is not the fault of the router or access points. The APs are hardwired to a Ubiquiti UDM-Pro and are AC Lite APs with a max throughput of 867mbps. In reality you would get half that, so let's say 425mbps to be fair. 

This *SHOULD* be enough bandwidth, but it's not. Spikes, interference, etc, causes the video to buffer, or, fail completely in Plex. Now, If I connect my TV (TCL 6 Series, 65" 615 model) to ethernet, it maxes out at 100mbps. The movies then play completely fine. Now, just say a triple A movie comes out, like, for instance, The Avengers or something similar. I rip it at 80mbps+ because i want to retain as much data/quality as possible. This WILL NOT play over 100mbps ethernet. Nothing you do can make this play properly. It cannot read ahead, it cannot buffer fast enough because it's choked out by the connection speed.

I prove this I took a **bleep** $50 android box from 2017. 1GB Ram, some s905x chipset and Gigibit ethernet. I loaded Kodi on it, installed the Plex plugin on it, the video plays fine. So I had a thought, force the connection speed on the UDM-Pro router for that connection to 100mbps. Sure enough it encountered the same problems.


So, in the end, I agree, there should be a Roku and newer tvs offered with GB ethernet. You cannot Transcode 4K HDR content on the fly with a Synology or Asustor NAS. You would need to build a power machine with nVidia GPUs in it to do this and even then it may not work. It's just too high of bandwith. I know my Ryzen 3900X and 1700x cannot handle this alone on the CPU side, so, the only option is to Direct Play this content, OR, encode at a lower bitrate, which, yes, 99% of the time is fine, however, there is a noticeable jump in quality at higher bitrates, especially for fast moving scenes and dark scenes.

Level 12

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?

I don't know the internals of rokus or roku TVs, but a lot of the cheap 'system on a chip' designs put the ethernet connection on the USB 2.0 bus which is going to limit bandwidth even if they did use a gig ethernet connection.    So, while I agree that everyone should be using gigabit ethernet connections I expect it to take a while for a redesign and to cost a lot more in the end.

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Level 21

Re: Why does no Roku streaming device include Gigabit Ethernet?


@VelosterN wrote:

That's not the point here atc98092. For streaming local media, you DO need the faster bandwidth if you are playing back high bitrate video.

 

For example, I rip my Blurays at 50mb/sec which should play fine of AC VHT80 WiFi, however, it does not. This is not the fault of the router or access points. The APs are hardwired to a Ubiquiti UDM-Pro and are AC Lite APs with a max throughput of 867mbps. In reality you would get half that, so let's say 425mbps to be fair. 

This *SHOULD* be enough bandwidth, but it's not. Spikes, interference, etc, causes the video to buffer, or, fail completely in Plex. Now, If I connect my TV (TCL 6 Series, 65" 615 model) to ethernet, it maxes out at 100mbps. The movies then play completely fine. Now, just say a triple A movie comes out, like, for instance, The Avengers or something similar. I rip it at 80mbps+ because i want to retain as much data/quality as possible. This WILL NOT play over 100mbps ethernet. Nothing you do can make this play properly. It cannot read ahead, it cannot buffer fast enough because it's choked out by the connection speed.

I prove this I took a **bleep** $50 android box from 2017. 1GB Ram, some s905x chipset and Gigibit ethernet. I loaded Kodi on it, installed the Plex plugin on it, the video plays fine. So I had a thought, force the connection speed on the UDM-Pro router for that connection to 100mbps. Sure enough it encountered the same problems.


So, in the end, I agree, there should be a Roku and newer tvs offered with GB ethernet. You cannot Transcode 4K HDR content on the fly with a Synology or Asustor NAS. You would need to build a power machine with nVidia GPUs in it to do this and even then it may not work. It's just too high of bandwidth. I know my Ryzen 3900X and 1700x cannot handle this alone on the CPU side, so, the only option is to Direct Play this content, OR, encode at a lower bitrate, which, yes, 99% of the time is fine, however, there is a noticeable jump in quality at higher bitrates, especially for fast moving scenes and dark scenes.


Of course, I completely agree with you for local media. I have UHD Blu Ray rips that are impossible to play on any of my Roku devices, regardless if they're wired or wireless. My comment was merely about online media sources. Remember, that's all Roku devices were ever initially developed to play. Supporting DLNA is relatively recent for Roku (last 4 years maybe).

But I can play H.264 ripped Blu Ray video at whatever the bitrate was on the disc. I use MakeMKV, which doesn't alter the bitrate at all. And my Roku players are all fine with them. It's the UHD rips I have problems with. 

I too have a Ubiquiti access point connected to a Gigabit network. But I still can't get my Ultra 4640 or 4670 to play my UHD rips. But my Shield, with a Gigabit connection, plays them just fine. Even my i5-6400 can't really keep up with transcoding H.265 to H.264, which is what would be required since Serviio doesn't yet support transcoding into H.265. 

I have some H.265 (non-HDR) test videos with varying bitrates, and the best I can do with a wired Roku is 90 Gbps. If I play them from a USB drive connected to the Roku, I start buffering around 160 Mbps, but that would be OK with my UHD rips, as they average around 90 with peaks in the 140 range. But again, the Shield can play 250 Mbps without buffering.

That's the target Roku should aim for, equaling an Nvidia Shield, but offer it 25-30% cheaper. And to equal the Shield, that means supporting lossless audio bitstreaming, graphics based captions, and support for more codecs/containers. Do all that and Shield sales will drop and Roku will have a hit.

Dan
Roku Stick (3600), Ultra (4640), Ultra (4670), Ultra (4800), Premiere (3920), Insignia 720p Roku TV, Sharp 4K Roku TV, Nvidia Shield, Windows 10 Pro x64 running Serviio and Plex on a wired Gigabit network.
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