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novasbc
Newbie

Re: It's 2022 and still no IPv6

Had to post.  I am on starlink at my house which uses CGNAT.  I have a plex server at my house.  Remote access requires the ability to connect in - which is impossible with CGNAT.

Starlink has IPv6, I can RDP and SSH to my machines behind the firewall, etc.

But, plex clients on Roku can't connect remotely because of the lack of IPv6.

It would also be nice if my roku devices in my house would use IPv6 outbound to avoid the overhead of CGNAT!

remaker
Roku Guru

Re: It's 2022 and still no IPv6

It would be interesting to see if a FireTV stick works in that situation, since it supports IPv6. Currently there is a promo to get the latest model (3rd gen "Sheldon," B08C1W5N87) for $20, even less with a trade-in. You can get a 2nd gen "Tank" for $8.99 on woot, but those are just too weak for anyone running advanced things like Plex.

Lost sales might encourage Roku to update to IPv6.

bluej21
Channel Surfer

Re: It's 2022 and still no IPv6

Hey, now it's 2023 "and still no IPv6."  Just imagine having arguably the most-used streaming platform on the planet and not supporting a protocol that all the major streaming providers and most (all?) ISPs are using.

DingleBob3899
Binge Watcher

Re: It's 2022 and still no IPv6

Actually it is now 2023 and still no IPv6 from ROKU.  Well my ISP has been telling all of its customers, for that last 4 years, to migrate to IPv6 only support before they drop IPv4 support all together in Q4 of 2024.

Well they ran out of IPv4 address space last month.  So at 5am March 24, 2023 all IPv4 connectivity will be terminated permanently.

So that mean I have five(5) Roku Ultra (4800 series) devices that will permanently become expensive paper weights because ROKU feels there is no need to support IPv6 or WPA3.

I knew their days were numbered when I switched to 802.11be access points which do not support WPA2-AES or WPA2-SHA256.  Every client I have, except the ROKU's, support WPA3.  Even my 5 year old Samsung TV and cheap Wifi light bulbs I have support IPv6 and WPA3.  Why can't ROKU?

Tags (2)
Tom817
Binge Watcher

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6


@DingleBob3899 wrote:

 Well my ISP has been telling all of its customers, for that last 4 years, to migrate to IPv6 only support before they drop IPv4 support all together in Q4 of 2024.

Well they ran out of IPv4 address space last month.  So at 5am March 24, 2023 all IPv4 connectivity will be terminated permanently.

You're in North America and an ISP is doing that ?!?!?!  

I loosely follow a major North American network mailing list where _serious_ activity takes place.  Not even the most ardent v6 inventor and advocates have proposed anything that drastic.  All understand that some sort of v4/v6 transition technology is necessary for the foreseeable future.  If you have any contact with your ISP network architect, encourage them to talk to their upstream and get some education on v6 transition technologies.


@DingleBob3899 wrote:

[…snipped]

So that mean I have five(5) Roku Ultra (4800 series) devices that will permanently become expensive paper weights because ROKU feels there is no need to support IPv6 or WPA3.

I knew their days were numbered when I switched to 802.11be access points which do not support WPA2-AES or WPA2-SHA256.  Every client I have, except the ROKU's, support WPA3.  Even my 5 year old Samsung TV and cheap Wifi light bulbs I have support IPv6 and WPA3.  Why can't ROKU?


I think it is safe to cut Roku a break on 802.11be.  Draft 3 of that standard just opened for vote on January 31, and doesn't' close until March 2, 2023.  If you have .11be APs, they must be pre-standard.  I am not aware if anything proposed in IEEE 80211be or Wi-Fi Alliance Wi-Fi 7 mandates the cessation of WPA2 (AES-CCMP).  Wi-Fi 7 isn't published yet, either.  

Life out in front of the bleeding edge can be fun, and quite frequently messy!

DingleBob3899
Binge Watcher

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6

I didn't go out and buy the .11be equipment it was offered to my employer for testing and debugging it in a production environment.  In the current beta firmware only WPA3 & above are available.

In my area three ISP's have a promotion going right now - "Bring us a active ROKU device and exchange it for a new AppleTV device. Limit of 6 devices per service address." 

I work for a Native American tribe in the PNW. We scrambled to get the reservation reliable internet in the later part of 2019.  We managed to cover most of the reservation with wi-max and wifi with a fiber back haul configuration.  We are now slowly getting more stable and reliable fiber to the home(FttH) service installed to as many homes as we can, but it is slow process covering the mostly rural landscape doing all the work in house.

Our tribal network started out IPv6, but soon learned we had to somehow support IPv4 only traffic.  It took almost 11 months in order to get a small amount of IPv4 addresses allocated for this use.  In fact there were only enough addresses to cover maybe 1% of population. So we were forced to create a very expensive proxy/translation server in order to support this traffic.  

We learned a very expensive lesson.  71% of the IPv4 traffic we were supporting was from ROKU devices. 9% coming from DishNetwork & DirectTV satellite tuners,  11% from HomeSecurity cameras and systems, and remaining 9% we replaced extremely outdated Point of Sale(POS) equipment.  So we cut ROKU some slack three years ago by spending a little over $300k just to support their devices.  

First off I despise both Apple and that other evil empire (house of mouse) I want nothing to do with either of them.  Now with that said I am one of four individuals that suggested and lobbied 15 other tribal nations to offer a new AppleTV device in exchange for active ROKU devices.  Other nations are facing the same dilemma.  Spend an exorbitant amount of money to support a small amount of antiquated devices or replace the problem devices at fraction of the cost.

Now if ROKU cannot be proactive at keeping up with connectivity standards they are going to be wiped out by their own complacency.  Judging by the growing number of offers to replace their devices for free their competitors are already proactively exploiting that complacency. When we approached apple to see about a discount to purchase a large number of their devices, for the exchange, they eagerly offered to supply their devices for free.  

So should I speak up to spark some action to remain relevant -or- should I cut them some slack and watch as they fade into obscurity?

Personally if I have to be labeled the bad guy in order to get some sort of action.  So be it!  It will be worth more than the bad reputation.  

remaker
Roku Guru

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6

@DingleBob3899 I work with a number of IPv6 industry initiatives and and extremely interested in this work you are doing. I have some ideas for you borne out of experiences with NAT64 and CLAT/464XLAT. I know that Jared Mauch has some some work around this, as have the folks at T-Mobile. Are you working with NANOG? This network is a fantastic case study and is even front-running some federal government IPv6 only work.

If you will reach out to ipv6 at remaker dot com, I'd like to see how we can use this work to drive some case studies. 

Tom817
Binge Watcher

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6

@DingleBob3899 ,

What an eye-opening write-up!  I owe an apology to you.  I did not anticipate running into a network architect in a $DAYJOB capacity on the consumer forum.  Failure of imagination on me.

@remaker covered everything I had to contribute about NANOG and v4/v6 translation technologies.  NANOG is the list I referred to above.  I have to assume you're familiar, working at your level.

@RokuDanny-R , looping you into this to demonstrate the impact of the costs that Roku's decision is forcing on some entities.  This Native American Tribe has 71% of it's IPv4 traffic from Rokus.  The Tribe spent $300k on IPv4 support.  $213k of that attributable to Roku's lack of support of an 11-year-old (World IPv6 Launch Day) production deployed technology that all of the hardware and software used by Roku already support!  That $213k is talent not hired, customers not served.  Maybe a half-dozen or so based on Jared Mauch's high end, maybe more, maybe less.  

How did Dish Network and DirecTV respond?  


First off I despise both Apple and that other evil empire (house of mouse) I want nothing to do with either of them.  Now with that said I am one of four individuals that suggested and lobbied 15 other tribal nations to offer a new AppleTV device in exchange for active ROKU devices.  Other nations are facing the same dilemma.  Spend an exorbitant amount of money to support a small amount of antiquated devices or replace the problem devices at fraction of the cost.

Now if ROKU cannot be proactive at keeping up with connectivity standards they are going to be wiped out by their own complacency.  Judging by the growing number of offers to replace their devices for free their competitors are already proactively exploiting that complacency. When we approached apple to see about a discount to purchase a large number of their devices, for the exchange, they eagerly offered to supply their devices for free.  

So should I speak up to spark some action to remain relevant -or- should I cut them some slack and watch as they fade into obscurity?

Personally if I have to be labeled the bad guy in order to get some sort of action.  So be it!  It will be worth more than the bad reputation.  


Perhaps you hadn't seen comments upthread from myself, @remaker@Mark12547@bluej21 about the shortcomings you describe.  Your rhetorical question makes its point just as boldly as it was asked.  The comments provide business and competitive facts impossible to ignore.

t looks like the 11-release chain focused on UI and ad-tech.  In the Multi-View thread, I wished that Roku would focus the 12 releases on cleaning up their technical debt and source code supply chain.  The tarballs appear to show differing kernel versions and library releases depending on hardware versions for the same RokuOS release.

Get on it, Roku.  We're waiting.  Apple isn't.  

Tom817
Binge Watcher

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6

@remaker , @DingleBob3899 

Do any cloud network as a service providers, e.g. Cloudflare offer v4/v6 transition technology as a service?  Any transition technology should, you hope, be declining demand.  Today v4, for you, is limited revenue if any*, and expensive to self-host.  Among all the core deliverables, FTTH & FWA access, v4 & v6 transport, v4 is the only declining demand product. It has to be provided because customers want The Internet, not inscrutably divided pieces of it.  But why sink capital into it?  

*Not that there hasn't been talk in some circles of adding a surcharge for IPv4 support as costs for addresses and other infrastructure increase.

remaker
Roku Guru

Re: It's 2023 (was 2022) and still no IPv6

@Tom817 "v4/v6" transition technology in Cloudflare is mostly in the form of CDN caching, anf it's not free at commercial scale.

@DingleBob3899 mentioned he is using CGNAT, but not which flavor. It sounds like they are handing out RFC1918 (or better, RFC6264) IPv4 addresses to customers and then using a Big Fat Box (or set of Big Fat Boxes) to map to limited global IPv6, the way you see with U-Vers and AT&T mobility. 

Some people use 6rd for this, but it needs endpoint (router) cooperation. But doing it IPv6 only gets tricky. NAT64 works for a lot of cases, but not raw IPv4 addresses. 464XLAT (CLAT) needs end user stack support, so is mostly only useful in mobile networks (https://www.apnic.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IPv6_Migration_Strategies_for_Mobile_Networks_White...)

There's also MAP-E and MAP-T (https://pc.nanog.org/static/published/meetings/NANOG71/1452/20171004_Gottlieb_Mapping_Of_Address_v1....)

It's not easy, but I'd love to see if we can help @DingleBob3899 get some state of the art fixes in place to help shove the industry forward!

Including Roku.