Discussions

[crsurf]

super frustrating, TV purchased at apt/2020 and now going all the time to factory defaults which is even worst than a simple reboot since you need to reconfigure everything all the time...

I have also an Element which has no such issue it seems the sw version is different between the two, on the Element it's 9.4.0 build 4200-61 and it has no issues so far.

On the TCL it's 9.4.0 build 4190-48 and it's not getting without rebooting byself to factory defaults for more than 1 miserable hour, super annoying since it takes around 14 minutes to complete the updates/apps download every time.

[crsurf]

Today got an update on firmware to Version 9.4.0 build 4200-48

So far two hours without a reboot...

[memwh]

Nothing works, i tried everything they said. Piece of **bleep** tv. Roko says hardware issue, TCL says software issue. Never buy a other TCL. This one is only 2 month. 

[Visitor45763]

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@memwh wrote:

Roko says hardware issue, TCL says software issue. Never buy a other TCL. This one is only 2 month. 

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I would believe TCL. Mine has been fine. But, Roku's updates are extremely unstable (obviously untested). To me, it's to the point of the proverbial "boy who cried wolf." Roku updates are so uncurated that my TCL tv could have an obvious hardware issue -- and I'd blame it on Roku due to the well-earned reputation.

EDIT: If TCL were held accountable for selling TVs with Roku, maybe they'd come down on Roku. It's just a matter of someone facing accountability. Where I worked, that was at the developer level. Start firing people for not following best practices (quality control, change control, unit testing). Apparently there are no best practices at Roku. It's just shoot-from-the-hip development. That's a leadership problem. If TV manufacturers felt they were being stigmatized by Roku's carelessness, maybe that would create some accountability at the right level.

[crsurf]

It seems to me some kind of hw issue triggered by new fmw, I don't think all 32S327 TVs have this issue, I can see this specific model has almost 32k reviews on Amazon and much more positive than negative, that's why I bought it, but I believe I got a lemon case unfortunately.

Now I have opened a case with TCL support and hope they can provide with some fix, otherwise I guess they may need to at least part refund the money I paid for the equipment as per my researches so far.

Even after the December update I'm still having very often reboot going back to factory reset, TV is getting restarted even while in the "Let's get started" menu...

[Visitor45763]

It would help a lot of people if updates could be managed by the user (rolled back to an earlier version, blacklisted.). IMO, customer satisfaction would skyrocket if they could easily opt out, keep their tv working the way they've been happy with since the day they bought it. 

People have jobs, families, etc. Nobody expects to have drama with their tv. Its just a tv. Updates should't be Russian Roulette. I wouldn't care if Roku breaks my tv -- if I could easily get back to where I was (and wait for the next random destabilizing event to occur). If I could always get back to what worked, I'd be happy. 

IMO, that's a massive shortcoming.

[SaturnMan]

My TV got stuck on the 9.4 update as well and is now bootlooping.  Basically, it is getting to the software update portion of the setup process, appears to download the update file (with the progress showing it going from 0% to 100%), then the TV reboots and the entire setup process starts over again.

I've tried all the different items on this thread (power button for 15 secs, reset button for 15 secs, USB install process) and still get stuck at the software update step.  

I have managed however to get the TV operational (with limited functionality) via these 2 workarounds:

1) Select STORE mode during the setup.  That method works but you seem to lose settings each time you power up - TV resets to defaults every time it turns on.

2) Selecting HOME but choosing NO INTERNET CONNECTION.  This method allows me to use OTA or Cable... and I can see the software version is 9.3, get to the serial and model numbers, etc.  But I get no Roku Smart TV functionality at all.... just an old fashioned HDTV.

Selecting HOME and Setting up Internet (via WIFI or mobile Hotspot) gets stuck on the software update portion, hits 100% and then bootloop over and over again.

Any other ideas out there?  (I also contact TCL but haven't heard back)...

[Visitor45763]

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@SaturnMan wrote:

2) Selecting HOME but choosing NO INTERNET CONNECTION.  This method allows me to use OTA or Cable... and I can see the software version is 9.3, get to the serial and model numbers, etc.  But I get no Roku Smart TV functionality at all.... just an old fashioned HDTV.

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You could spend $30 USD on an Amazon Fire Stik & watch streaming as an HDMI external device. One upside to that option is: another update can't make it worse. It seems like updates are 1 step forward, 2 back. You'd be protected that way, and be able to use your tv still. (An Android TV streaming box might be better. Roku's CEO used to say the goal was to be Android on the TV -- before Android came to the TV. It's probably going to be the default the way Roku hoped to be.).

That would be a way to continue to use your tv without having to buy a new one. If you wouldn't buy another Roku TV, then reverting back to version 9.3 & streaming with a separate component would effectively cut the cord with Roku (without buying an entire tv).

I think what's the roughest part of Roku is the lack of bug tracking, statusing, prioritizing ("affects me too" visibility). People sit and hope something's going to improve when there's no reason to hope at all. When you look back at topics the past months, it's the same old "passing it along" forever. Like you're offering advice, not having a problem to fix. It's arrogant. People don't know if they need to fork out cash for a new tv, or when something might change. No feedback at all. That's abusive. It's the classic prisoner's dilemma. So, making your Roku TV a "dumb" tv with no internet connection, and using a $30 add-on box to stream would free you from this relationship which Roku doesn't take seriously.

[SaturnMan]

Yep, that's the route I've taken (disabled Internet and plugged in an HDMI Android stick - a Tivo Stream 4k that I had) and I'm back in operation.  While it can be debated whether my issue is a TCL hardware or Roku software issue, what is clear is that the software design does not accommodate the ability to run the software without forcing a software update on you.  

Because something has gone with my software update process, I now can no longer use the Roku software in any form.  That's an amazing oversight on Roku's part - but likely intentional so they can ensure to push their latest software (and revenue generating strategy) down to all users?  

[Visitor45763]

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@SaturnMan wrote: ... the software design does not accommodate the ability to run the software without forcing a software update on you. 

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I think the problem is exactly as you said. I think it's not feasible to test on all hardware (now that Roku's on so many brands, models and probably revisions of models). Maybe in the beginning Roku could have had a tighter hardware compliance specification. A test-suite to ensure compatibility. I get the impression it's very loosey-goosey, with no anticipation for how manufacturers might deviate and create instability in Roku's software. (Like you said, maybe that's a hardware problem, not a software problem.).

As you suggest, I wouldn't have a problem with this situation if we could go back to a prior version. MS Windows eventually leaves old computers behind. But, you can still run a prior version for as long as you you have an installable copy of it. It continues to be supported (patched, security holes fixed) for 5 years. It's not like millions of personal computers turned into paperweights the day Windows 10 was released. (And then, even when it reaches a point that it's maybe not safe to continue using an old, unsupported, un-patched version of Windows, you can install a lightweight version of Linux and continue to use your hardware for as long as it stays alive.

There is something wrong with this Roku business model. It's like they want it both ways. They didn't (apparently) specify a hardware requirement to the tv manufacturers to "certify" themselves to (so that Roku software could run predictably well on any certified model). Roku didn't create a test suite to confirm compliance. It's like mismatched expectations between Roku & the tv manufacturers. That makes the situation look more like Microsoft's model.

But, then Roku doesn't want to let customers continue using old versions. Probably because that would add to Roku's burden to maintain support for old versions (and streaming-app providers would have to continue providing old versions of their apps for still supported versions of Roku's software.). It's understandable. But, the common theme is: it's the customer's burden. Roku didn't want the burden of a well-defined and certifiable hardware environment (to make the software predictably stable). And then when the result is instability, they don't want the burden of supporting affected customers whose hardware wasn't accomodated in the evolution of the software.

So, it's definitely understandable. Whether this was by design or oversight doesn't really matter. What does matter is whether Roku thinks its a problem, or whether consumers will buy into this business model (if Roku thinks its peachy-keen). I don't see the latter happening. Especially now that Android is on TVs. Even TCL has come out with a TV with Android as the software. I feel like, if something's going to be more maverick & unstable, then why not go with Android -- who has a much longer history of development on more devices. It's going to be more inclined to supporting legacy hardware. (My old Nexus 4 phone is running some older version of Android. I'm not faced with a choice between buy a new phone, or never connect to the internet again to avoid getting updated into brokenness.). 

It's definitely going to be interesting to see how Roku proceeds. They're at that point of business life (2-3 years after an IPO, probably salivating for a juicy takeover offer. A SPAC, which is all the rage these days). Longer-term issues like this are probably low on the list. The priorities are probably more in the lipstick department. Appearances, keeping the books looking good. Eventually consumer word of mouth will affect sales. Or, the competition (Android) will. Or, a company will buy Roku and have to deal with the matter themselves.

I hope it works out. Competition is good. I'm not wanting to see Roku fail. But... I won't be buying another until something matures, and Roku has more empathy for the customer. IMO, something has to change. I can't imagine the consuming public wanting to pour money into an appliance that is neither certified for Roku's ongoing support, nor supported with older versions of Roku's software. If that's how Roku really believes it should be, then they should change their name to RuRo (Russian Roulette TV). I doubt anyone will by these tvs when that reputation is more established. They'll have some niche market like Harbor Freight does. People buying stuff they know won't last long, "but, it's cheap! I saved $200." Maybe that will be a valid business model. Disposable tv.

It's definitely going to be interesting to observe how Roku charts its path.