Channels & viewing

[StreamerUser]

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@DisastifiedAL wrote:

"Additionally, the Alliance's seven founding members – Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla and Netflix – announced that the initial focus of the video format would be delivery of high-quality web video"

It's Standard, AV1 is where it will go, Just like Blu-ray and HD DVD battle, biggest pockets wins.

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Its "a" (as in one) standard, not "the" Standard (such a thing doesnt exist), especially in the world of video/audio codecs.

Regardless, the Ultra 2020 (4800) already supports AV1, but Google's ChromeCast w/Google TV doesnt, making this entire (supposed) specific dispute issue ironic and weird - Why is Google demanding AV1 hardware support that already exists going forward for Roku, but that its own latest product does not?  Why would Roku specifically object to a demand for hardware AV1 support going forward, if they already have it going forward?

All of this would suggest that the about-to-be released Express 4K/+ models with the RTD1315 (the 4800 has a RTD1319) SoC do not in fact have AV1 decoding, despite the fact that the RTD1311/1319 do (the 4K+ product pages do not mention AV1), though that would be a bit odd/weird.

After all, why would Roku object to a "demand" that they've already met (before it was even a demand), unless of course its all just posturing for public consumption - and/or because the RTD1315 SoC doesnt have AV1 decoding support.

This specific negotiation dispute detail will get further clarity when the Express 4K/4K+ are released in 2 weeks, and AV1 decoding support or lack thereof is confirmed.

[basch]

I saw both emails (from YouTube and Roku), and neither are being clear on their position. I think the write-up by some third-parties has been much more informative, e.g. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/roku-vs-google-part-2-the-youtube-tv-app-gets-pulled-from-th...

From what I can tell:

1) YouTubeTV wants to push streaming players to support AV1 for Internet streaming, which is a standard to avoid another licensed standard and offers lower bandwidth. This standard seems to be backed by Google, Amazon and Netflix. Admittedly, not many streaming players support AV1 today, and that might be the hardware uplift that would be required for streaming players moving forward. However, if the others are also moving in that direction, this might be the biggest thing to push people into upgrading their hardware, and I see Roku already has at least one device with such support, but most do not. Then again, this is a problem across the board (so the question may simply be terms about when).

2) Roku is stating that YouTubeTV is trying to control search. First, I really doubt the YouTubeTV app even interacts at the Roku home screen, and if Roku is trying to affect the Search within the YouTubeTV app, I am not sure I want that... Why should Roku be changing my experience within an app they are running? Does that mean that Roku wants to also change my search results of what I can browse in my Amazon Prive Video library also or in Netflix or in HBO Max? I go to the services to find what I want within them. If the top-level search works with the apps, great... if it can't see within each of the apps, well, I expect there to be a few rough spots...

It used to be that Roku was the neutral streaming player (a.k.a. the Switzerland of streaming players), and that Amazon Fire stick and Chromecast and AppleTV had some competition amongst each other. Now, it seems Roku is creating friction with a lot of the players - HBO Max was delayed (vs. HBO), and other channels being dropped, whereas, Apple, Amazon and Google now have better support for each other.

I have Roku sticks, Roku devices, and a Roku TV, and while the Roku TV originally had me thinking that I had to keep my Roku ecosystem, I am realizing either can be replaced... even the Roku TV accepts HDMI input, so one of the other streaming player dongles will work (it merely will require that I use 2 remotes instead of one for the Roku TV).

Roku - fine, you can't easily support AV1 in your existing hardware, but you have already started integrating it... if that is your argument, I fear you are facing longer term issues with Amazon and Netflix also... Yes, future hardware cost might be marginally affected, but prices go down, and if the other licensed technology is no longer required, then there will be a move toward a cost reduction.

Roku - if YouTube is dictating what you do in Search outside the YouTube app, there is a case, but I sure don't think you have a right to dictate what any provider does within their app... I don't want you changing the search results within Amazon, Netflix, YouTube or any other provider app. It would be nice to do show searches from a top level, and you can try to develop an API/solution, but truthfully, I don't expect accurate results today... 

Please resolve this soon, because your status as a neutral streaming player which offers extensive compatibility is certainly coming under fire (and you are losing your distinction of having this edge over other devices in my assessment). I am neither committed to retaining Roku nor YouTubeTV, but the arguments being put forth do not seem to corroborate with some third party reporting.

[CaptGrumpy]

@howieg00 wrote:

Me Everything is working for now , but I just ordered a $50 GoogleTV. I cannot wait to see who Roku will decide to fight with next. They are a small hardware maker, which because of Netflix and YTTv have a large network, which they may be in the processing of destroying .

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Really? Roku is the largest streaming platform in the world with 38% market penetration. I'm not taking sides here, but your statement is inaccurate. It's the number 2 tv replacement app (Hulu+Live is number 1 by appx 1m subscribers) against the number 1 streaming platform. Do the research

[atc98092]

No, there's no one you can talk to at Roku about it. And problems with specific channels need to be taken to whomever provides that channel. In your case, that is Google. 

Don't uninstall the YouTube TV channel from your Roku or you won't be able to add it back in. Normally that's the suggested thing to do with a problematic channel, but not in this case. 

If the Roku is looking "fuzzy" with everything, you might check the Display setting in your Settings/Display menu and make sure it's set correctly. 

Exactly what model Roku are you using, and what TV is it connected to? Have you done a system restart (either using the Settings/System menu or pulling the Roku's power for 30 seconds)? Can you try your Roku on a different TV and see how it looks?

[CaptGrumpy]

@DisastifiedAL wrote:

try number ONE, More subscribers to YTTV than anyone else

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Try number 2. Hulu +Live has a little over 4m subscribers, while YTTV has appx 3m. Get your facts straight. 

[Purewitz]

Google/YouTube TV is trying to strong-arm and bully Roku with anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices and unfair terms. Pretty much Google/YouTube TV wants Roku to give them special treatment, instead of being equal to other similar services. Such as Roku has always listed things from A to Z, but Google/YouTube TV wants to be on the top of the list. This whole ordeal isn't Roku's fault, it's Google/YouTube TV's fault. People should be complaining at Google/YouTube TV, not Roku. If they care that much about YouTube TV they should buy an Android TV device such as a Chromecast With Google TV or Nvidia Shield TV.

[pearlsnscrubs]

“We’ve been working with Roku to renew our deal to distribute YouTube TV on their devices. Despite our best efforts to come to an agreement in the best interests of our mutual users, Roku terminated our deal in bad faith amidst our negotiation. Unfortunately, Roku has often engaged in this tactic with other streaming providers. “ YouTube TV blog

“We regret to share that, despite our best efforts, we have been unable to reach an agreement with Roku. We continue to offer Roku the opportunity to renew the YouTube TV deal under the existing reasonable terms.“ YouTube TV website 

[Ericph47]

All great points

[Ericph47]

Agreed

[Purewitz]

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@pearlsnscrubs wrote:

“We’ve been working with Roku to renew our deal to distribute YouTube TV on their devices. Despite our best efforts to come to an agreement in the best interests of our mutual users, Roku terminated our deal in bad faith amidst our negotiation. Unfortunately, Roku has often engaged in this tactic with other streaming providers. “ YouTube TV blog

“We regret to share that, despite our best efforts, we have been unable to reach an agreement with Roku. We continue to offer Roku the opportunity to renew the YouTube TV deal under the existing reasonable terms.“ YouTube TV website 

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"We have only asked Google for four simple commitments. First, not to manipulate consumer search results. Second, not to require access to data not available to anyone else. Third, not to leverage their YouTube monopoly to force Roku to accept hardware requirements that would increase consumer costs. Fourth, not to act in a discriminatory and anticompetitive manner against Roku. " - This is what Roku had to say about all this.