Channels & viewing

[BartZLederman]

I use the Roku Media Player channel/app every day.  It usually works reasonably well.  I get the files from a DLNA server on a Windows PC: I've been doing this for close to two years.  I've also set up a similar PC for a friend and he uses Roku Media Player the same way.  We use Windows Media Player as the DLNA server, and it has not been changed in years (by Microsoft).

Yesterday, it stopped playing videos that are 1920 by 1080, including videos that played the day before.

I've double checked, and there have been no changes on the media server PC.  I've run diagnostics and rebooted, and there are no faults there.

I've checked to see that the Roku-based TV I'm using has all of the Roku updates, and rebooted.

I've checked the network settings, and they are good.  I also tried a completely different Roku device, a Streaming Stick, on a different TV and get exactly the same results.

In the menu system, I see a preview image of the video I want to play, so the server is seeing the video: but when I play it, I just get a black screen.

Has anyone else seen this, and does anyone have any suggestions on what might be going on?

The fact that it happens on two Roku's seems to point to my DLNA server, and I'm going to run more tests: but I've never seen anything like this before, and, as I said, the software on the PC hasn't been changed in any way.

[BartZLederman]

A possibly related factor: does anyone know if there is a maximum bit rate Roku Media Player will accept?  I've seen the web site that specifies formats, but I don't remember ever seeing a maximum bit rate.  The bit rates of my videos are well within what I consider 'normal' limits, they're well below the bit rates of many YouTube videos, for example.

[renojim]

Did your Roku recently update to software version 11.5?  You can check under Settings->System->About.

[BartZLederman]

My Roku TV is currently at system software 11.0.0

I created a series of video files, a few minutes long, using two methods.

One was encoded using Avidemux with bit rates from 1500k to 4000k in 500k increments.

The other was directly with ffmpeg (and a different input file) with slightly different options and

bit rates from 2000k to 5000k in 500k increments.  I did this at 720p and 1080p for both bitrates.

The results are "interesting".

I tested two ways.  One was with Roku.  The other was with an old (at least 10 years, probably more) Samsung BluRay player which also has an Ethernet port and will connect to a DLNA server: this gives me a way to compare something that uses the same server but no Roku.

The first set of tests produced via Avidemux played at all of the bit rates up to 4000k via Roku.

For the second set of tests produced with ffmpeg: all of the 720p videos up to 5000k played via Roku.  For the 1080p videos, only the 2000k bps video played via Roku: the 2500k and up videos hung.

On the old BluRay player, the Avidemux produced videos played up to 4000k, and none of the ffmpeg videos played.

I've tracked down part of the problem.  The videos that played are all profile High or Main and L4.1 or lower.  The videos that didn't play on BlueRay or Roku are L5.0 or higher.

I've run into this before, and use batch files to process videos, but somehow on this last batch of tests the limiter on IDC level was not set.  The BlueRay is too old to handle L5.0 or higher: and from previous tests I've found that Roku Media Player will handle L4.1 but not L4.2 or higher.

Unfortunately, this does not explain everything, because some of the 1080p videos that will not play now on Roku are High@L4.1, which does normally work.  I've checked, and 1080p at this level will play, but with lower bit rates.

So I'm going to have to generate a new set of test files that are all High@L4.1 and lower to find out why some videos at this level play and some don't.

[BartZLederman]

I've done another series of tests.  I created a set of 720p and 1080p videos, all identical except for the target bitrate and the dimentions.  All were limited to high@l4.1 .  All of the 720p videos played, all of the 1080p videos went to 99% loading and stalled.

There are lots of optimization options when encoding.  All of the videos were encoded with the "-strict normal" option, which rules out optimizations that don't completely comply with H.264 specifications. But there are other options that are within the limits, and apparently there is one or more that should be completely legal, and which works at 720p but not 1080p.  And, most importantly, is not documented by Roku.

This still doesn't explain why a 1080p video that worked a couple of days ago could not play now. I am certain that Roku did something that has messed up 1080p video decoding, at least through the Roku Media Server.

I'm going to have to go through a large number of tests to find out which encoding options Roku isn't interpreting properly.

[BartZLederman]

Correction: the last set of tests were done with "-strict very", which really clamps down on the available options.

[atc98092]

I just tested some 1080 movie rips using my Premiere 3920. I had no issues playing any of them. Roku has not made any updates to RMP for close to a year, and even those updates were focused on music, not videos. My finger points at the Windows DLNA server, which frankly is terrible at its job. It only has limited support for transcoding, and zero user control over how it works. I started using Serviio as my DLNA server close to 10 years ago, and consider it vastly superior to the Windows server. Disclaimer: I enjoyed Serviio so much I became a moderator on their forum, and I am the author of the Roku profiles that are included with Serviio. I am not, however, an employee of Serviio.

In addition to Serviio, Plex and Emby both offer server products that include DLNA output, so RMP could still be used. However, both of those have their own dedicated Roku channels that work and look much better than RMP. If you use playlist files (.pls or .m3u), then using RMP with Serviio is the better choice.

You asked about a maximum bitrate for RMP. It's dependent on the hardware, not RMP itself. The older Roku players (pre-2016 or so) would cap out around 20 Mbps, so HD video required transcoding to a lower bitrate. With the improved hardware of more recent players, HD video, which usually tops out around 40 Mbps or so, is no problem. For the 4K Roku players, I've used test clips of H.265 content played from the USB port, so no network or server potential roadblocks. At 150 Mbps I begin to see a bit of artifacting, but buffering doesn't occur. By 180 Mbps, the video will stutter, and an occasional rebuffer will happen. Most of my 4K movie rips have video bitstreams that average 80-100 Mbps, but I have seen peak bitrates exceed 150 Mbps. The Roku with wired network connections of course cannot maintain that speed, so a good 802.11AC wireless network connection is critical to play that content. In my testing, the Roku Ultra 4800 will max out on WiFi at about 205 Mbps, so just barely sufficient for 4K ripped movies. Of course, one could use Handbrake and reduce the bitrate of the video with only a little loss of quality. However, I think that would also strip out the HDR flags, and might not look as good for colors. 

[BartZLederman]

I cannot in any way agree with your post.

I have eliminated the DLNA server as a cause of the problem.  Windows Media Player, in the mode I am using it, does not (I repeat, DOES NOT) transcode the output when serving videos.  If it did, then we would be able to serve files in formats other than MP4 to Roku Media Player.  I have also observed the cpu and data rates while serving, and it is not re-encoding the data: it is only serving it "as is".

I have also checked bit rates, and they are well within the limits of my network and Roku Media Player.  If you read what I wrote you will see that I have tested a series of 720p videos at bit rates up to 5 Mbps, and they play fine.  1080p videos encoded WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PARAMETERS AND SETTINGS

[BartZLederman]

I cannot in any way agree with your post.

I have eliminated the DLNA server as a cause of the problem.  Windows Media Player, in the mode I am using it, does not (I repeat, DOES NOT) transcode the output when serving videos.  If it did, then we would be able to serve files in formats other than MP4 to Roku Media Player.  I have also observed the cpu and data rates while serving, and it is not re-encoding the data: it is only serving it "as is".

I have also checked bit rates, and they are well within the limits of my network and Roku Media Player.  If you read what I wrote you will see that I have tested a series of 720p videos at bit rates up to 5 Mbps, and they play fine.  1080p videos encoded WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PARAMETERS AND SETTINGS and bit rates of 2Mbps or less don't play.  This very clearly points to Roku Media Player as the problem.  I have also stated clearly that some old 1080p videos do still play, but they were encoded to an older standard.

I am about to run a series of tests to find out just what the limits to size and bit rates are, and what encoding parameters are causing the problem.  I expect to know more soon, probably today.

I think you need to consider a different user name for yourself.

[atc98092]

It's your choice to agree or disagree. I've been using Roku players for more than 10 years, and using DLNA in that time. My data is accurate. And as mentioned, I tested some 1080p files on my server (one that had no transcoding at all) on a mid-level Roku and they played fine. 

Roku appears to have lost interest in supporting RMP. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes with their development team, and I haven't been able to contact the person responsible for RMP in many months. My suggestion is to use something other than RMP for the time being, and that means using Plex or Emby if you want a decent video player.