Channels & viewing

[Sangrine]

I totally agree as a parent working from home with 3 kids. I don't understand why they can't have youtube kids but have youtube. These are from the same company. Please just add the kids version.

[ShanaACole86]

Is there or will there be a YT Kids channel since it’s an actual app? (YouTube Kids) 

[Ruka]

And it's still needed.

[RedBeard]

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@Basil wrote:
Roku doesn't run on Android. 

Google owns Android. Android TV is a competitor of Roku that runs on Google's operating system. And YouTube is owned by Google.

So, no, none of what you said.

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YouTube is on Roku. If YouTube is there, YouTube kids should be there.

So, no, none of what you said

[sandy198796]

I put a baby shark video on for my 6 month old granddaughter and the first thing was a beer ad. While I am absolutely certain my granddaughter doesn’t understand the alcoholic ads yet, I was still absolutely pissed. 

[nataliep]

yes why is it not?

[Yogi76]

Roku used to be the platform that was "service agnostic" and had almost all apps available, which is why I chose it over Android TV / Google TV, Fire TV, or Apple TV. Unfortunately, that no longer seems to be the case with YouTube Kids, Peacock*, and HBO Max all being glaring omissions that the other platforms now have but Roku doesn't. I'm currently evaluating moving to another platform.

*Technically, Peacock isn't yet available on Fire TV, but since Fire TV is based on Android, the app can be sideloaded.

Edit: It turns out that the Peacock app is actually now available for Roku.

[fluke]

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@Yogi76 wrote:

Roku used to be the platform that was "service agnostic" and had almost all apps available, which is why I chose it over Android TV / Google TV, Fire TV, or Apple TV. Unfortunately, that no longer seems to be the case with YouTube Kids, Peacock*, and HBO Max all being glaring omissions that the other platforms now have but Roku doesn't. I'm currently evaluating moving to another platform.

*Technically, Peacock isn't yet available on Fire TV, but since Fire TV is based on Android, the app can be sideloaded.

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I am sorry to hear you are having problems figuring out how to watch Peacock TV on Roku.

It is lised in the channel store here:

https://channelstore.roku.com/details/2dd1a2670117700b87d7a40bfa7e6138/peacock-tv 

HBO Max support provides instructions on how to watch on Roku here:
https://help.hbomax.com/Answer/Detail/2346 

There is still no YouTube Kids available for Roku from Google.  While Fire TV has it, it should be noted that Amazon does not give YouTube Kids a rating of "all ages."  There are other apps that get an "All Ages" rating but not YouTube Kids.  Instead Amazon rates YouTube Kids as "Guidance Suggested."

How Amazon defines Guidance Suggested is very telling about the quality of YouTube Kids:

Based on information provided by the developer, the content of this application has material that is appropriate for most users. The app may include account creation, location detection, user generated content, advertisements, infrequent or mild references to violence, profanity, or crude themes, or other content not suitable for all ages.

They also had to pay $170 million for violation of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).

How is the name YouTube Kids not misleading?  Seriously, what exactly is Google implying when they call it "YouTube Kids" that is not just grossly misleading?!?!

[Yogi76]

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@fluke wrote:

I am sorry to hear you are having problems figuring out how to watch Peacock TV on Roku.

It is lised in the channel store here:

https://channelstore.roku.com/details/2dd1a2670117700b87d7a40bfa7e6138/peacock-tv 

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I am glad to see that Roku now has the Peacock app. I must have simply missed that news as it isn't actually an app that I am personally interested in. I was simply using it as an example of an app from a major content provider that I thought wasn't available on Roku. I was wrong and, although it was delayed, the Peacock app is indeed now available on Roku. I stand corrected.

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@fluke wrote:

HBO Max support provides instructions on how to watch on Roku here:

https://help.hbomax.com/Answer/Detail/2346 

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The fact that anyone, including HBO themselves, would point to that article as an example of HBO Max being supported on Roku is just sad. The fact is there is no HBO Max app on Roku, therefore the Roku platform doesn't support HBO Max. That is simply how end users view the situation. No amount of screen mirroring workarounds is going to change that.

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@fluke wrote:

There is still no YouTube Kids available for Roku from Google.  While Fire TV has it, it should be noted that Amazon does not give YouTube Kids a rating of "all ages."  There are other apps that get an "All Ages" rating but not YouTube Kids.  Instead Amazon rates YouTube Kids as "Guidance Suggested."

How Amazon defines Guidance Suggested is very telling about the quality of YouTube Kids:

Based on information provided by the developer, the content of this application has material that is appropriate for most users. The app may include account creation, location detection, user generated content, advertisements, infrequent or mild references to violence, profanity, or crude themes, or other content not suitable for all ages.

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There is an option to disable the search function in YouTube Kids. Doing so makes it so that only human curated content is available. With search enabled, the YouTube Kids app uses algorithmic filtering and content flagging so there is a very slim chance that the content that you bolded above could be displayed. With search disabled, that chance is completely negated, assuming that the human moderators can be trusted. Of course, the same could be said for the human moderators of any child focused content app.

The rating and warning language in Amazon's listing for YouTube Kids is for the app overall with all its features, including search, which, again, gives it the slim possibility of playing the content you mentioned. Similarly, Amazon rates the HBO Max app as "Adult" even though there are parental controls to limit a child's usage to only content such as Sesame Street.

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@fluke wrote:

They also had to pay $170 million for violation of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).

The fine was for using targeted advertising on child focused content. It was not for failing to protect children from the type of content that you mentioned above. It is an important fine, but that distinction should be made clear.

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@fluke wrote:

How is the name YouTube Kids not misleading?  Seriously, what exactly is Google implying when they call it "YouTube Kids" that is not just grossly misleading?!?!

YouTube Kids is an app that provides access to YouTube hosted user created content, but with a focus towards kids. Additionally, it has parental controls that include algorithmic filtering, time limits, and even the ability to limit content to only human curated videos. All of that is why it is called YouTube Kids. I'm not sure why you find the name so "grossly misleading."

Again, the bottom line is that every major streaming app platform other than Roku has the YouTube Kids app available. Parents want it and Roku doesn't have it. That is what this thread is about.

[fluke]

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@Yogi76 wrote:

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@fluke wrote:

I am sorry to hear you are having problems figuring out how to watch Peacock TV on Roku.

It is lised in the channel store here:

https://channelstore.roku.com/details/2dd1a2670117700b87d7a40bfa7e6138/peacock-tv 

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I am glad to see that Roku now has the Peacock app. I must have simply missed that news as it isn't actually an app that I am personally interested in. I was simply using it as an example of an app from a major content provider that I thought wasn't available on Roku. I was wrong and, although it was delayed, the Peacock app is indeed now available on Roku. I stand corrected.

So, is this an indication you have never even looked at the kids section of Peacock TV?

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@Yogi76 wrote:

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@fluke wrote:

There is still no YouTube Kids available for Roku from Google.  While Fire TV has it, it should be noted that Amazon does not give YouTube Kids a rating of "all ages."  There are other apps that get an "All Ages" rating but not YouTube Kids.  Instead Amazon rates YouTube Kids as "Guidance Suggested."

How Amazon defines Guidance Suggested is very telling about the quality of YouTube Kids:

Based on information provided by the developer, the content of this application has material that is appropriate for most users. The app may include account creation, location detection, user generated content, advertisements, infrequent or mild references to violence, profanity, or crude themes, or other content not suitable for all ages.

There is an option to disable the search function in YouTube Kids. Doing so makes it so that only human curated content is available.

There is no place YouTube Kids promises that all the non-search videos displayed have been fully reviewed by a Google/YouTube employee. In fact, with search turned off, I still get the following warning: "Our systems work hard to exclude mature content, but not all videos have been manually reviewed."

There is also no promise made by Google that the ads displayed with search turned off have been fully reviewed by a Google/YouTube employee as appropriate for the age range the profile has been set to.

The YouTube Kids Terms of Service make no distinction in the Limitation of Liability and Indemnity sections between non-search and search provided videos.

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@Yogi76 wrote:
With search enabled, the YouTube Kids app uses algorithmic filtering and content flagging so there is a very slim chance that the content that you bolded above could be displayed.

When a company wants to prove something is very slim chance, they usually provide hard numbers.  They may also have an independent organization confirm the numbers.  

For anti-virus software the independent organization called "av-test" is currently using 12,650 samples of malware.  The industry standard for the software they review fails to detect 4 of the samples.  The degree to which the chances are slim is backed by quantifiable data for anti-virus.

YouTube Kids seems to have a marketing term of "very slim chance" but I have yet to see any hard numbers.  No information on number of videos reported.  No information on number of corrections to the age range.  No information on how long after a video is first added to YouTube Kids until corrective action is taken.  There doesn't even seem to be hard number for the maximum period of time spent from a video being reported to a correction taking place.

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@Yogi76 wrote:

With search disabled, that chance is completely negated, assuming that the human moderators can be trusted. Of course, the same could be said for the human moderators of any child focused content app.

When a company believes something is "completely negated" they should be able to back that claim with something.  Again, YouTube Kids anti-backs their own claims with limitations of liability and indemification.

The Google Chrome web browser team has *confidence* in the security of their browser.  If you report a security issue and they confirm it then they will pay between $1,000 to $30,000 depending on the severity of the problem reported.  This is known as a "bug bounty" or "vulnerablity reward program."

YouTube Kids has no equivalent level of confidence in their marketting claims.

If you report a search based video displayed on YouTube Kids, the bounty payment range is $0 to $0.

If you report a non-search based video displayed on YouTube Kids, the bounty payment range is $0 to $0.

If you report an ad displayed on YouTube Kids, the bounty payment range is $0 to $0.

If the size of the bounty offered is an indicator of how much a company actually believes it's own marketing claims then the claims of YouTube Kids are *WORTHLESS*.  Zero to ZERO dollars of backing.

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@Yogi76 wrote:

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@fluke wrote:

They also had to pay $170 million for violation of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).

The fine was for using targeted advertising on child focused content. It was not for failing to protect children from the type of content that you mentioned above. It is an important fine, but that distinction should be made clear.

It should not have ever had to come to that. The law was passed in 1998. YouTube was founded in 2005. YouTube Kids was released in 2015. It should have followed the *LAW* from the beginning, not waited to see if they got caught.

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@Yogi76 wrote:

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@fluke wrote:

How is the name YouTube Kids not misleading?  Seriously, what exactly is Google implying when they call it "YouTube Kids" that is not just grossly misleading?!?!

YouTube Kids is an app that provides access to YouTube hosted user created content, but with a focus towards kids.

You seem to be talking word for word from marketing defintions. Yet we are continuing to see articles and University studies that question this claim.

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@Yogi76 wrote:
Additionally, it has parental controls that include algorithmic filtering, time limits, and even the ability to limit content to only human curated videos. 

Where are you finding a promise that non-search videos are all 100% curated by employees of Google/YouTube? Or where are you finding the option to limit to Google/YouTube human curated videos?

My last pair of new shoes included a card in the box with the initials and employee number of the person that inspected the quality of the shoes.  Is there any equivilant on YouTube Kids?  Do you know *WHO* reviewed the videos that you claim have been human curated?

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@Yogi76 wrote:

All of that is why it is called YouTube Kids. I'm not sure why you find the name so "grossly misleading."

Because it is a history of violating any reasonable definition of being child friendly and has failed to provide any strong backing to prove it is different now.  The same loopholes exist and the same lack of transparency on what exactly they mean by their claims still exists.

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@Yogi76 wrote:

Again, the bottom line is that every major streaming app platform other than Roku has the YouTube Kids app available. Parents want it and Roku doesn't have it. That is what this thread is about.

Then get another streaming app platform for the limited time YouTube Kids still exists.

As far as I can tell, the YouTube Kids in the Amazon Appstore hasn't been updated in a good while.  I wouldn't be surprised if that is an indication that Google is planning to kill it.

If you follow the #KilledByGoogle graveyard for YouTube related items, you will find that they have already killed YouTube Leanback, YouTube Messages,  YouTube Gaming and YouTube Video Annotations.

There was even indications at the announcement of Google Stadia cloud gaming console that YouTube Gaming will be further expanded.  But, that is not actually the case.

I can't find any indication they are continuing to put any further investiment into improving YouTube Kids.  At the same time, there are indications it continues to have problems.  In the past when a Google service or feature has that combination they usually seem to "fix" it by killing it.

For example, Google+ or G+ which would be the Google version of Facebook but supposibly provide better security and privacy.  It was released in 2011 and for a couple years Google was very aggressive about pushing it.  They even tried to integrate it with YouTube.  Then there was the "2018 Google data breach" and Google aggressively made G+ disappear from existance.

YouTube "Kids" is the YouTube equivilent to G+.  We had G+'s marketing of "security/privacy" and then when that turned out to not be true it all went away.  I see YouTube Kids being friendly to children much like G+ was secure.  It is my opinion that it is one more major event away from Google deciding they need to pretend it never existed.

But if you need a fly-by-night service to expose your children to, you are right that other platforms have it.  I need better credability which to me it clearly lacks.