RAF not correctly determining ad pods from VMAP

how are you providing a Freewheel URL when using SSAI? The results from 2 different ad requests can differ, right?

Adobe Auditude is generating the ad URL for us -- this is what's provided to RAF via setAdUrl().
Auditude service is also stitching in the ads (correctly) into a new stream, which we're playing.

We are examining different ad requests (some that RAF correctly determines the ad pods from, and some that it doesn't) to try and spot the differences. But so far we haven't found any clues -- the VMAPs appear valid for both.

"acreskey" wrote:
This is a problem for us since the RAF's ad handling (e.g. "Ad 1 of 1") and player control blocking will occur at the wrong time.

Have you accounted for this detail - that for SSAI, stitchedAdsInit() expects time offsets from the stream start and not the break start?

"stitchedAdsInit()" wrote:
... In particular, for server-stitched ads, all time-dependent tracking beacons (Impression and quartile beacons) must have a valid time data member set, with a value relative to the entire stitched stream. For example, if a 30-second ad starts at 10:00 within the stitched stream, its Impression beacons should have track.time = 600.0 and its Midpoint beacons should have track.time = 615.0, and so on. ...

Also, where do you get the VMAP from? If it's from source before the stitching server, consider that the stitching process introduces some delays/extra frames, so the break pauses would diverge from VMAP from a separate ad server.

"acreskey" wrote:
Adobe Auditude is generating the ad URL for us -- this is what's provided to RAF via setAdUrl().
Auditude service is also stitching in the ads (correctly) into a new stream, which we're playing.

I get that, but the problem is that Adobe makes one FW request for their backend system, and you make another from the device. You could hit a situation where ad inventory is available for Adobe's request, then exhausted when the device makes the same request.
In our implementation of Adobe SSAI, we are provided with the VMAP response that Adobe gets from Freewheel and provide the data to RAF using stitchedAdsInit(). We never call setAdUrl() with SSAI.

"RokuNB" wrote:

"acreskey" wrote:
This is a problem for us since the RAF's ad handling (e.g. "Ad 1 of 1") and player control blocking will occur at the wrong time.

Have you accounted for this detail - that for SSAI, stitchedAdsInit() expects time offsets from the stream start and not the break start?

"stitchedAdsInit()" wrote:
... In particular, for server-stitched ads, all time-dependent tracking beacons (Impression and quartile beacons) must have a valid time data member set, with a value relative to the entire stitched stream. For example, if a 30-second ad starts at 10:00 within the stitched stream, its Impression beacons should have track.time = 600.0 and its Midpoint beacons should have track.time = 615.0, and so on. ...

Also, where do you get the VMAP from? If it's from source before the stitching server, consider that the stitching process introduces some delays/extra frames, so the break pauses would diverge from VMAP from a separate ad server.

Thank you for the quick reply RokuNB.

Although I'm new to VMAP and VAST, it does appear that the time-dependent tracking beacons in the VMAP do have their time set relative to the entire stitched stream.
At least if RAF uses the 'tpos' field.
For example, here we have the AdBreak at 5:35, and I'm seeing <Impressions> and <Tracking> events with tpos=335 

    <vmap:AdBreak timeOffset="00:05:35.368" breakType="linear" breakId="1">
        <vmap:AdSource>
            <vmap:VASTAdData>
                <VAST version="3.0">
                    <Ad id="19585946" sequence="1">
                        <InLine>
                            <AdSystem>FreeWheel</AdSystem>
                            <AdTitle>....</AdTitle>
                            <Impression>http://bea4.v.fwmrm.net/ad/l/1?s=d001&amp;n=48804%3B48804%3B381963&amp;t=1499795079091200015&amp;f=&amp;r=48804&amp;adid=19585946&amp;reid=7250158&amp;arid=0&amp;auid=&amp;cn=defaultImpression&amp;et=i&amp;_cc=19585946,7250158,,,1499795079,1&amp;tpos=335&amp;iw=&amp;uxnw=&amp;uxss=&amp;uxct=&amp;metr=1031&amp;init=1&amp;vcid2=48804%3Af2c022b54b07596779cc00c4a7e26e49&amp;asid=-1&amp;ssid=1954993&amp;cr=https%3A//servedby.flashtalking.com/imp/8/78463%3B2547733%3B201%3Bpixel%3BTurner%3BTurnerConnectedTV301x1/%3Fcachebuster%3D700020434</Impression>
                            <Impression>http://ad.auditude.com/adserver/e?type=adimp&amp;a=342240&amp;w=17&amp;uid=0gCR6cUlSMWpsa74nrYlXQ&amp;s=2b595733&amp;t=1499795079&amp;u=ac217921a4a853e52310ebc459eef367&amp;z=131829&amp;cid=324172756&amp;br=1&amp;pod=id:1,ctype:l,ptype:p,dur:200,lot:1,cpos:1&amp;ax=0,0,0,0&amp;sq=1</Impression>
                            <Creatives>
                                <Creative AdID="19585946">
                                    <Linear>
                                        <Duration>00:00:30.030</Duration>
                                        <TrackingEvents>
                                            <Tracking event="creativeView">http://ad.auditude.com/adserver/i/;uid=0gCR6cUlSMWpsa74nrYlXQ;s=2b595733;t=1499795079;u=ac217921a4a853e52310ebc459eef367;z=131829;cid=324172756;br=1;pod=id:1,ctype:l,ptype:p,dur:200,lot:1,cpos:1;ax=0,0,0,0;sq=1;a1=105;a=342240;w=17/c0x0</Tracking>
                                            <Tracking event="start">http://ad.auditude.com/adserver/e?type=AD_PROGRESS&amp;a=342240&amp;a1=105&amp;ref=urn:asset:342240:105&amp;unit=percent&amp;progress=0&amp;uid=0gCR6cUlSMWpsa74nrYlXQ&amp;s=2b595733&amp;t=1499795079&amp;u=ac217921a4a853e52310ebc459eef367&amp;z=131829&amp;cid=324172756&amp;br=1&amp;pod=id:1,ctype:l,ptype:p,dur:200,lot:1,cpos:1&amp;ax=0,0,0,0&amp;sq=1</Tracking>
                                            <Tracking event="firstQuartile">http://bea4.v.fwmrm.net/ad/l/1?s=d001&amp;n=48804%3B48804%3B381963&amp;t=1499795079091200015&amp;f=&amp;r=48804&amp;adid=19585946&amp;reid=7250158&amp;arid=0&amp;auid=&amp;cn=firstQuartile&amp;et=i&amp;_cc=&amp;tpos=335&amp;init=1&amp;iw=&amp;uxnw=&amp;uxss=&amp;uxct=&amp;metr=1031</Tracking>
                                            <Tracking event="firstQuartile">http://ad.auditude.com/adserver/e?type=AD_PROGRESS&amp;a=342240&amp;a1=105&amp;ref=urn:asset:342240:105&amp;unit=percent&amp;progress=25&amp;uid=0gCR6cUlSMWpsa74nrYlXQ&amp;s=2b595733&amp;t=1499795079&amp;u=ac217921a4a853e52310ebc459eef367&amp;z=131829&amp;cid=324172756&amp;br=1&amp;pod=id:1,ctype:l,ptype:p,dur:200,lot:1,cpos:1&amp;ax=0,0,0,0&amp;sq=1</Tracking>
                                            <Tracking event="midpoint">http://bea4.v.fwmrm.net/ad/l/1?s=d001&amp;n=48804%3B48804%3B381963&amp;t=1499795079091200015&amp;f=&amp;r=48804&amp;adid=19585946&amp;reid=7250158&amp;arid=0&amp;auid=&amp;cn=midPoint&amp;et=i&amp;_cc=&amp;tpos=335&amp;init=1&amp;iw=&amp;uxnw=&amp;uxss=&amp;uxct=&amp;metr=1031</Tracking>
                                            <Tracking event="midpoint">http://ad.auditude.com/adserver/e?type=AD_PROGRESS&amp;a=342240&amp;a1=105&amp;ref=urn:asset:342240:105&amp;unit=percent&amp;progress=50&amp;uid=0gCR6cUlSMWpsa74nrYlXQ&amp;s=2b595733&amp;t=1499795079&amp;u=ac217921a4a853e52310ebc459eef367&amp;z=131829&amp;cid=324172756&amp;br=1&amp;pod=id:1,ctype:l,ptype:p,dur:200,lot:1,cpos:1&amp;ax=0,0,0,0&amp;sq=1</Tracking>
                                            

The VMAP is returned from the Auditude stitching server, so we are expecting it to be account for the extra frames. But the issue we're seeing is not that the Ad UI is rendered at a different time, it's that while we see two ad breaks in the VMAP, only one ad pod is generally found, and it's always rendered as a pre-roll.

"tim_beynart" wrote:

"acreskey" wrote:
Adobe Auditude is generating the ad URL for us -- this is what's provided to RAF via setAdUrl().
Auditude service is also stitching in the ads (correctly) into a new stream, which we're playing.

I get that, but the problem is that Adobe makes one FW request for their backend system, and you make another from the device. You could hit a situation where ad inventory is available for Adobe's request, then exhausted when the device makes the same request.
In our implementation of Adobe SSAI, we are provided with the VMAP response that Adobe gets from Freewheel and provide the data to RAF using stitchedAdsInit(). We never call setAdUrl() with SSAI.

I see what you mean, Tim  - thanks for the reply.
So you're generating your own ad pod array from the original VMAP and feeding it directly into RAF.
That goes against our implementation guideline, so I'm hoping to avoid that.

Actually we never see the original VMAP response, we get an Adobe-defined JSON file with all the ad break information and beacons. This is part of the Adobe SSAI API we use. 

But frankly I don't see how you will ever have accurate ad data if you are making 2 requests to Freewheel, so hopefully I am misunderstanding your problem.

"acreskey" wrote:
That goes against our implementation guideline, so I'm hoping to avoid that.

I'm curious what guidelines you refer to. I've been using Adobe SSAI on Roku for over 2 years and your approach doesn't sound familiar.  We worked closely with them to implement SSAI.

"tim_beynart" wrote:
Actually we never see the original VMAP response, we get an Adobe-defined JSON file with all the ad break information and beacons. This is part of the Adobe SSAI API we use. 

But frankly I don't see how you will ever have accurate ad data if you are making 2 requests to Freewheel, so hopefully I am misunderstanding your problem.

We're not making 2 requests to Freewheel -- one request to Auditude gives us the stitched ad stream, and a second (based on the first) supplies us with the VMAP (presumably the one that was used to stitch in the ads).
But our organization's guidance is to provide this VMAP to RAF to parse into ad pods. (Which I believe RAF should handle, according to the docs).

OK that makes sense. Our implementation is similar, but we do not get the raw VMAP XML from Adobe, we get a JSON translation. Which we then translate into the RAF-friendly ad pods format.